New to asf, considering breeding

[jtman]

Again thanks for all the tips and advice! I just checked them out and based on the pictures in the sticky it looks like I have 3.3 One I am sure is a boy as his testies are starting to show. Using him for my baseline I am pretty sure that there are 3.3

[jtman]

So I picked up 2 Sterelite tubs that measure approximately 26x13. My plan is to have one for the 1.2 I will keep and 1 as a grow out. Can I let some of the litter stay around for a while or is it best to take them out right away?

I already have the hardware cloth and I am going to make a food hopper and a similar water bottle holder in the lid like I've seen in the stickys. That way I dont have to drill any holes in the side.

Do you think that will work or would a water bottle be to heavy and weigh down the lid too much?

[jtman]

Hey everyone. I heard little pips and squeaks in the cage today and was surprised to see a little squirmy pink bean in the nest! Using a glove I nudged the adults aside (surprisingly they weren't aggressive at all) and counted 7 pinks. Pretty exciting!

Now, for my issue(s). I neglected to separate anyone. I left all 6 in the tub for too long it seems. Time just flys by, but anyway. Is there an easy way for me to tell who just gave birth? Or does anyone have any advice for separating them now that I waited too long? I want to keep 1.2 as I only have a single ball to feed. ( I can also give a pink or two to my bearded dragon every now and then as well). I have a feeling I will be quickly overrun if/when the other two moms drop their litters.

Perhaps it would be best to let them all drop and then try to select the two moms who seems to be mothering the best, if I could tell that at all. And which father should I keep? I am such a procrastinator, always getting me into a bind lol.

[starstrukk]

You can usually tell who has given birth by how swollen their teets are. But, with ASFs, if there is more than 1 female they are very well known to mother each other's pups- to the point of feeding other mothers' pups as well. You could simply remove all the males (except for your predetermined breeder boy) and remove the excess females once the litter comes to age. By then, the other females may have dropped some pups as well, but leaving them all in with the male will simply continue the cycle. If you take your excess girls (and litters if they have any at that point) and put them in a tub together to give birth, they won't be able to breed again to the male but will still have the company of taking care of each other's pups.

Hope that makes sense xD If it doesn't, I apologize

[jtman]

You mostly make sense I think culling 2 of the males out will be a good first move. I still have a few mice left to feed off (I cant wait until they are gone!) and then feed off 2 of the boys. After that I imagine the other 2 girls will have dropped by then. Then I'll have to figure out which female to cull. One step at a time I suppose.

I've been trying to just observe them as I don't want to disturb them too much. The cage is in need of cleaning though so when I take care of that tomorrow I'll take a closer look at each of the females. I have a feeling my mostly brown one is the mother as she is constantly tending to the pups, cleaning them and covering them. Or maybe she is just a good mom. I think she'll be a keeper either way =)

Hmm, re-reading the post makes me wonder if I should go with 1.1 I certainly don't want to be over run, but then I think it might be safer to have 1.2 in case something happens to one of the mothers. I dunno I'll have to ponder this one for a bit.

[jtman]

Oops! Turns out I have 2.4 and not 3.3 like I had thought! One mom is HUGE she has to pop any time now and I see bulges on the other two. 5 of them look so much the same I must've made a mistake when I sexed them before.

4 litters is gonna be insane. Should I split them up now before they all pop? I could split them into separate 1.2 groups and just keep the group that seems to do the best job / better temperament / looks. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

When is too old to introduce them? I will eventually want to consolidate the litters into a grow out tank. I know they can go in right after they are weaned, but can also live with the parents for a while as well. When should I move my "keeper's" offspring into the grow out tank with the other litters and avoid any aggression. Thanks in advance!

I am also a bit concerned with being over run now. If the other 3 litters are smallish I might be ok, but If I end up with 40+ pups I could be in trouble!

[jtman]

Just a quick update. My big mama popped last night. Looks like 10-12 pups, its hard to get a good count as they are in a big pile with the older pups. I'm just happy it wasnt a huge litter. I'm going to feed a couple pinks to my bearded dragon today and that'll help trim down the numbers.

I've seen in other threads that Mike C. is all about the hog grower feed from purina. I am wanting to go that route since I am having a hard time finding mazuri lab block (and the hog feed is CHEAP!). Right now they are getting crappy kaytee brand block (6 bucks for 3 lbs, ouch!). Does it have to be Purina brand or am I just looking for something that is formulated for growth? I will be calling all the feed stores again today.

[starstrukk]

I don't know much about hog feed, but I do know that you can order straight from Mazuri. I considered it, but haven't done it yet, since I only had 2 pet rats at the time Majority of stores can order it in for you, if you definitely wanted to feed Mazuri. There's Harlan lab block, too, and I believe you can order straight from them as well. I've been feeding my mouse Nutriphase, which seems decent so far. It definitely isn't as fatty coated (going by texture and gloss, really) as Kaytee or most other brands. It is a mix however, with lab blocks in it. I've never had a problem with mixes, although a lot of other people claim that they pick and choose.

You can also order Mazuri from stores such as Petsmart or Petco online, and most places (if you look around the internet for public wholesalers. yes, they do exist ) will sell it cheaper with the more you buy. Hope this helped a bit, I can provide some links if you need them (:

[jtman]

Thanks Starstruckk, I'll look into ordering direct, but I have a feeling shipping costs on 50lb bags wont be very pretty. I found Mike's thread on the subject and its a good read and answered many of my questions on the subject.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ters..../page9

I use Harlan's Teklad aspen shavings with our guinea pigs. We buy about 10 bags at a time from the reptile show from a local vendor for 13 bucks a bag. I've been using it for the ASFs since we have plenty of it on hand. I was also buying lab block from the breeder I buy from at the show as well, he re-packaged it into smaller bags, but I think it was harlan brand.

I'm a bit bummed I'll have to give up the food hopper I just made, but it also means less work when I make my 2nd lid. attaching the hopper to the lid with those stainless steel zip ties was a real PITA!

[JohnNJ]

You can order Mazuri from any Feed & Grain store that sells Purina chows. I use 6F for all my rodents. It may take two weeks to come in so plan accordingly.

I also thought about the hog grower food that Mike mentioned but it seems that Purina makes different food in each part of the country. Right now I don't know which hog food is the one he is talking about and if I can get it in the Northeast.