Questions at the heart of the matter...

[ClarkT]

I sure have a hard time finding definite answers to many questions on BP Breeding. I wish a large breeder would take on a project to determine a bunch of things. For example:

1- does palpating at any point cause slugs?

2- what exactly is the cause of Captive bred BPs starting the building process/growing follicles/building fat reserves before breeding? Along with this one:
- is it temperature? I don't believe so, as many breeders do nothing to change temps and still breed without problems...
- Is it barometric pressure? (storms rolling in...)
- Is it light cycle?
- Is it humidity changes?
- Does it have much or anything to do with what time of year they themselves hatched?
- Is it the scent of a ready and willing male?
- Is it a result of feeding them more for a few months, thereby triggering their "clock"?
- How much of a combination of these, and others, is it really?

3- Maybe someone already knows this, but I can't really find a definite answer: How much temperature swing during incubation is too much? Some say more than 2 deg. Some say more than 3. Is temperature swing an actual cause of birth defects? Does it specifically cause kinking, twisted umbilical cords, missing eyes, higher mortality rates at hatching, etc?

3a- With temperature swing, is the problem more because of condensation forming on eggs from the drop in temp?

4- How much oxygen does the egg need during incubation? If they are in a small room, with not much fresh air entering, does that affect how much the egg tub needs to be opened/ventilated during incubation?

5- Is the number of eggs a result of the size of the BP (weight and length), age, or genetics? Or a combo of all of the above? Is it more about the health of the animal?

6- Are there really any real disadvantages of maternal incubation, or is it mostly hearsay by those who haven't tried it?

7- If maternal incubation is used, are BPs able to raise their body temp at all?

8- Is the spider gene really homozygous?

9- Why are BPs so addicting?
10- What's Big Gunns up to these days?

I don't necessarily expect answers to all these questions, but it sure would be nice if a few breeders would conduct some experiments--possibly involving the use of ultrasounds, pressurized rooms, complete climate controlled environments...etc...--and research some of these. However, I don't see that any breeder would see the $$$ results of such research, so I wouldn't really expect them to go after things like this.

Anyway, thanks for reading the long post...Feel free to add questions and discuss...This is all just curiosity.

[dragonboy4578]

Great questions. Hopefully someone will have a few answers for you....

[Adam Chandler]

I'm going to answer what I can to the best of my knowledge

I sure have a hard time finding definite answers to many questions on BP Breeding. I wish a large breeder would take on a project to determine a bunch of things. For example:

1- does palpating at any point cause slugs?

I have never heard of palpating having adverse effects on the clutch.

2- what exactly is the cause of Captive bred BPs starting the building process/growing follicles/building fat reserves before breeding? Along with this one:
- is it temperature? I don't believe so, as many breeders do nothing to change temps and still breed without problems...
- Is it barometric pressure? (storms rolling in...)
- Is it light cycle?
- Is it humidity changes?
- Does it have much or anything to do with what time of year they themselves hatched?
- Is it the scent of a ready and willing male?
- Is it a result of feeding them more for a few months, thereby triggering their "clock"?
- How much of a combination of these, and others, is it really?

Temp - A roughly 10 degree night drop in temperature is know to encourage breeding but is not necessary.
Barometric pressure - No, but I have heard others say it can encourage breeding.
Is it light cycle? - No, BP's can live and breed with an constant 12 hours a day light cycle. (but they DO need some sort of a light cycle to function normally.)
Is it humidity changes? - No
Does it have much or anything to do with what time of year they themselves hatched? - Not that I'm aware of.
Is it the scent of a ready and willing male? - No, but that can encourage breeding (by both a female smelling a male and vice versa) but to my knowledge only after the actual breeding will the female decided to use the sperm rather than retaining. If she decided to use it she will ovulate and start building follicles, this is if she feels her body is ready/capable. She if does not feel ready she may retain the sperm for the future.

3- Maybe someone already knows this, but I can't really find a definite answer: How much temperature swing during incubation is too much? Some say more than 2 deg. Some say more than 3. Is temperature swing an actual cause of birth defects? Does it specifically cause kinking, twisted umbilical cords, missing eyes, higher mortality rates at hatching, etc?

I really don't think there is a exact range that is known to cause defects. All you can do is strive to maintain as much temperature consistence as possible and hope. I'll tell you this though, in my last clutch I recorded a 3 degree variation from 88 to 91 and all the hatchlings were fine. Could it possibly have caused a defect? Maybe, but I really don't think temperature fluctuation by itself will definitively cause defects. Perhaps it can contribute to the cause though.

3a- With temperature swing, is the problem more because of condensation forming on eggs from the drop in temp?

Your eggs should always have near 100% humidity with NO actual water touching the eggs. This is up to you and not difficult to prevent. If condensation does drip down on eggs they should be immediately dried by wiping them gently with a paper towel.

4- How much oxygen does the egg need during incubation? If they are in a small room, with not much fresh air entering, does that affect how much the egg tub needs to be opened/ventilated during incubation?

BP eggs use very little oxygen during incubation. I incubate my eggs in 6 quart plastic shoebox tubs and seal the top of the tub with press n' seal in order to keep the humidity high enough. The air sealed in with the eggs will provides enough oxygen for at least the first 6 weeks. Towards the end of incubation the eggs start to use a little more oxygen so during the last 2 weeks of incubation I start to break the seal briefly for cycle out the air. I don't know if this is completely necessary, but I do it just to be safe.

5- Is the number of eggs a result of the size of the BP (weight and length), age, or genetics? Or a combo of all of the above? Is it more about the health of the animal?

Big girls can lay small clutches and but, in general, experienced heavy healthy girls tend to lay the most eggs.
Weight, age ( # of clutches laid), genetics and health are each individually not definitive in determining the number of eggs, but as I said experienced, healthy, heavy (not obese but solid) girls tend to lay bigger clutches.

6- Are there really any real disadvantages of maternal incubation, or is it mostly hearsay by those who haven't tried it?

I know of no advantages of maternal incubation, but since I have never tried it I can't really comment on it.

7- If maternal incubation is used, are BPs able to raise their body temp at all?

Again I am not the best one to answer this because I have never tried it. I will say though I won't try it because BP moms know to take care of eggs in the wild because they can control things like temp and humidity by tightening or loosing their coils around the eggs, but in a artificial habitat they cannot control these things as they could in the wild. I've heard it can be done but you have to thorough research and set up a proper habitat for the female to be able to incubate.

8- Is the spider gene really homozygous?

The Spider gene is Dominate. Meaning it only needs one allele to express the morph and it has no super form. For more info on reptile genetics you can read this:http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Basic-Genetics

9- Why are BPs so addicting?

A very good question, all I know is: They definitely are.

10- What's Big Gunns up to these days?

I am not qualified to answer this questions.

I have bred, incubated and hatch out BP's but compared to many more experienced people on here I am a amateur. If I incorrectly stated anything please correct me.

I would also recommend checking out these videos for BP breeding tips:http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Tips&p=1525140

[muddoc]

1. No.

2. Over 1 million years of evolution telling them that procreation is the only way for species survival.

3. There is no definitve answer, but I have experienced 10 degrees with no ill effects. (Speaking of no definitive answers, there really is no answer to any of your questions "definitively", as many people do things differently, successfully.)

3a. Typically what causes the issues is the rise of the swing, not the drop in the swing. The rise actually cooks the embryo. Drops are more easily tolerated, as long as the eggs are heated up relatively soon (relative, because there is no definitive answer).

4. Very little. I cover my egg boxes with Saran wrap, and incubate in a 4x7 foot room that does not get very much venting (only from opening the door). I have let clutches incubate until day 55 without ever opening the box.

5. There really is no link to the animal and how many eggs she will lay, outside of her historical record. Sometimes big girls lay fewer eggs, but they are very large eggs. This is a crap shoot at best when guessing how many she will lay (unless you counted while palpating).

6. The only real disadvantage is that you will have to wait at least 60 more days to get some weight back on your female. As long as the eggs hatch, the the end will have justified the means.

7. They cannot raise their body temperature. Also, from reading thet I have done and talking to people that have tried it, Balls do not vibrate their eggs to raise temperature like some of the other Python species do.

8. To the public, there is no Homozygous Spider. They are all Heterozygous, hence the reason that non Spiders are produced in clutches that one parent was a Spider.

9. Most humans love to collect stuff, and always want what they don't have. Since there are so many mutations, one cannot have them all, hence the reason to get more. Always trying to get the checklist complete.

10. Does it matter.

[Quiet Tempest]

I sure have a hard time finding definite answers to many questions on BP Breeding. I wish a large breeder would take on a project to determine a bunch of things. For example:

1- does palpating at any point cause slugs?

I've never heard of palpating causing problems like these. Being urinated or poo'd on because of palpating an irritable female, sure, but not slugs.

2- what exactly is the cause of Captive bred BPs starting the building process/growing follicles/building fat reserves before breeding? Along with this one:
- is it temperature? I don't believe so, as many breeders do nothing to change temps and still breed without problems...
- Is it barometric pressure? (storms rolling in...)
- Is it light cycle?
- Is it humidity changes?
- Does it have much or anything to do with what time of year they themselves hatched?
- Is it the scent of a ready and willing male?
- Is it a result of feeding them more for a few months, thereby triggering their "clock"?
- How much of a combination of these, and others, is it really?

BHB made a video not long ago that discussed this a little bit. He said that females' follicle size seems to play a part in whether or not a male will show interest or court/copulate with her. But does follicle growth happen in regular cycles without the presence of a male or his pheromones? I have no idea.

3- Maybe someone already knows this, but I can't really find a definite answer: How much temperature swing during incubation is too much? Some say more than 2 deg. Some say more than 3. Is temperature swing an actual cause of birth defects? Does it specifically cause kinking, twisted umbilical cords, missing eyes, higher mortality rates at hatching, etc?

I maternally incubate and the first year I tried it was in an 40g breeder tank, I did have a thermometer placed in the nest box with the female. It was just a cheap little strip thermometer sitting next to the mom on the moss but I saw temps on it swing from 80 to 90 on some days. There were 5 eggs in that first clutch and all of them hatched on day 53 - no abnormalities. Last year I saw my first baby with a kink - it was a tiny kink at the tip of her tail. I'm not sure what caused it. She was in my rack so temperatures would be less likely to fluctuate there. Maybe just lousy luck.

3a- With temperature swing, is the problem more because of condensation forming on eggs from the drop in temp?

Really no idea on this one. With maternal brooding, the eggs are protected from prolonged direct contact with water.

4- How much oxygen does the egg need during incubation? If they are in a small room, with not much fresh air entering, does that affect how much the egg tub needs to be opened/ventilated during incubation?

No idea.

5- Is the number of eggs a result of the size of the BP (weight and length), age, or genetics? Or a combo of all of the above? Is it more about the health of the animal?

I would guess that it's a matter of all of the above.

6- Are there really any real disadvantages of maternal incubation, or is it mostly hearsay by those who haven't tried it?

I would say there are more advantages to maternal incubation when compared to artificial incubation, but that's just me. There is definitely a lot of misinformation out there that is spread by people who are simply relaying what they've heard or read from others who may have never allowed their females to brood.

The most common bits of misinformation I've heard is that the female will not eat while brooding a clutch and that temps and humidity can't be kept properly for a brooding mom. I was guilty of spreading that bit about females not eating while brooding, myself, until after my the first year of breeding. I corrected my mistake when I tried offering food to the same female her second year brooding a clutch and she ate on a weekly basis throughout incubation. I learned that brooding females can be just as finicky as any other ball and that one skipped meal doesn't mean that they'll refuse all subsequent meals. As for proper conditions for maternal incubation, if your ball's enclosure permits intact sheds and healthy behavior then it's likely that conditions are already ideal for a brooding mom. You'll be keeping temps the same as always for your female. In the wild, I've read that females leave the clutch to bask and then return to their den after having warmed up. I've never seen any of my females shiver on their clutches. I'm not sure if this is because the temperature is already ideal or because balls are incapable of thermogenesis. The humidity is regulated by the female by tightening/loosening her coils and by either soaking prior to wrapping her eggs or urinating in the nest. For that reason, I don't try to increase the humidity in her enclosure unless it's extremely low. I try to keep my enclosure's humidity no less than 60% and no more than 80%.

7- If maternal incubation is used, are BPs able to raise their body temp at all?

See above answer.

8- Is the spider gene really homozygous?

As I understand it, spider is a dominant trait.

9- Why are BPs so addicting?

They're like colorful potato chips lol

10- What's Big Gunns up to these days?

No idea

I don't necessarily expect answers to all these questions, but it sure would be nice if a few breeders would conduct some experiments--possibly involving the use of ultrasounds, pressurized rooms, complete climate controlled environments...etc...--and research some of these. However, I don't see that any breeder would see the $$$ results of such research, so I wouldn't really expect them to go after things like this.

Anyway, thanks for reading the long post...Feel free to add questions and discuss...This is all just curiosity.

Good questions. I hope you get all the answers you're looking for.

[sookieball]

This is to many questions.

Nike is to life, as ball python breeding is to sleep.

Just do it. Youll be happy u did.

Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk

[ClarkT]

I agree it's a lot of questions. I know there are many methods used. I think the basis of all the questions, and the wish that there would be some research, is to know the bare bones requirements for successful breeding.

Some breeders likely concern themselves with unnecessary concerns. Many say that it's not necessary for dropping temps. If it's not necessary, that's an unneeded concern a breeder might be having.

Some concern themselves with light cycle. Others don't. It then seems that's also unnecessary.

Some pair the snakes until the female lays. Again, likely not necessary, obviously we want the best odds, so the more locks, the better chance of babies...

Some are saying "burping" the tub is unnecessary. Is it only necessary in the last couple weeks? Again, I'm just wondering about the bare bones necessity of all the different methods, hearsay, suspicions, etc., for successful breeding.

One big question I have is about the beginning of breeding season. Can I start a breeding season in March by lowering temps as many do starting in October (in the Northern hemisphere)? Basically, through artificial environments, can I get most my females to lay in August-October instead of March-May? And if so, what's the benefit of waiting until a breeding season?

If it's difficult to do that, that makes me think there's more to the barometric pressure, or stormy season type effect than anything else...just thoughts I guess...

In the end, I think it would probably be cost prohibitive for any breeders to set up such experiments that would lead to actual answers to these things.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

2- what exactly is the cause of Captive bred BPs starting the building process/growing follicles/building fat reserves before breeding?

As far as I know, this has yet to be definitively determined. I read one paper in which the authors made a so-so experiment that "concluded" that male presence was necessary for follicular development in blood pythons, but it was really pretty poor research IMO. (Tiny sample size, not enough control of variables, etc.)

If "male presence" is the main thing that stimulates folliculogenesis, that doesn't at all explain how a female can retain sperm for many months, then build, ovulate and lay much later, after the male has "left the building." The paper also didn't even try to explain what exactly it was about the male that induced folliculogenesis and ovulation -- whether it was the stimulation of copulation (a la cats), smell, pheromone cues, etc., etc..

I'm also honestly not sure if any research has even been done into which particular hormonal profiles influence folliculogenesis and ovulation in pythons, let alone what environmental factors influence those hormones! ... So much cool research, so little time and funding