Breeding a spider with a severe wobble

[OhhWatALoser]

i'm no breeder (nor do i have any snake breeding knowledge) but i can say that i could not knowingly breed anything that has any kind of defect.

going to pick and choose your defects? Albinos have a defect where they can't produce melanin, all morphs are some sort of defect. your mojave is a defect of some sort....this whole hobby is defective animals lol.

[darkbloodwyvern]

going to pick and choose your defects? Albinos have a defect where they can't produce melanin, all morphs are some sort of defect. your mojave is a defect of some sort....this whole hobby is defective animals lol.

I bet high white pieds get eaten a lot faster in the wild than their low white sibs. So are the low whites defective too, or just less defective? I'm kidding, but also curious... They're both pied, obviously.

[eracer]

I bet high white pieds get eaten a lot faster in the wild than their low white sibs. So are the low whites defective too, or just less defective? I'm kidding, but also curious... They're both pied, obviously.

This speaks to the heart of the question. Nature selects mutations for success or failure based on their ability to survive and procreate - in the wild. Man chooses to remove the environmental pressures inherent in the predator/prey relationship, thus allowing certain mutations to continue because he deems them desirable. Thus, man becomes the arbiter of evolution - to a degree.

Unfortunately, it has been proven throughout history that man is a rotten arbiter of such things, and that unforeseen (and damaging) genetic traits can and do occur in those species that he has genetically manipulated.

The idea that wobbling and the spider morphology are somehow 'natural' is a red herring. It occurs in the wild, but who here really knows whether nature would select it out? I suspect that a neurologic disorder like this in a snake would increase the chance of predation, and reduce the chance that the spider morph would continue as a sub-type. But what do I know.

[reptiledanny]

i am still learning about all the morphs, so please dont have a go at me if this is wrong
the woma ball python is very like the spider ball python, and i read somewhere that they may even be related like the cinnamon and black pastel ball pythons, so surely then then woma is the better of the two becuase it will produce animals very much like the spider (like the bumblebee) but does not contain the spider wobble, is this correct

[Serpent_Nirvana]

The idea that wobbling and the spider morphology are somehow 'natural' is a red herring. It occurs in the wild, but who here really knows whether nature would select it out? I suspect that a neurologic disorder like this in a snake would increase the chance of predation, and reduce the chance that the spider morph would continue as a sub-type. But what do I know.

Not sure who has said they're "natural" ..? I mean, in a way, sure; they weren't created in a laboratory. The first spider mutation did appear without the aid of man. I agree, though, that I think it's very doubtful that they would have survived without man's intervention.

Do I think that means that they shouldn't survive? ... I think the big question is, does the mutation we're propagating negatively affect the animal's quality of life? I don't think having a different paint job gives the animal any lower self-esteem, so for 95% of our morphs that isn't an issue.

Does the spider "wobble" affect the animal's QOL? ... I really don't know. For a large portion of our spiders that have very little neurologic derangement, I would say that no, it doesn't, at least 99% of the time. I cannot, however, say the same for the "train wrecks" that are upside-down most of the time. Maybe it doesn't bother them and they are just as happy as any other captive snake in its safe, warm, secure, well-fed state. Then again maybe they live in a permanent state of malaise and existential frustration; I don't know, I'm not a neuro snake.

@Reptiledanny -- I don't believe, based on what I've read and seen, that the spider and woma are in any way related. They do kinda look similar. I think that the woma is a great alternative for those who are turned off by the spider "wobble." I think, though, that the reason the woma hasn't simply replaced the spider is because, in my opinion (and I don't think I'm alone here) the woma crosses can't hold a candle to the same crosses made with a spider. (Ex: "wannabee" versus bumblebee, etc.) People just seem to like the spider crosses better.