Was it the diet change? *WARNING GRAPHIC PIC*

[suzuki4life]

the doggie bag is fine.

Remind me, did I tell you before or not....let your rats alone.

Yes you can wean them to a new diet, however...wean

Do not just up and switch diets on them.

an extreme diet change, a change in temps and many other factors could be leading to what you have experienced. Mazuri and doggie bag in the same hopper and most rats will rush to feeding on the doggie bag, what happens to those that don't? they cause stuff like this to happen. There's a good chance of switching them back will have the same effect. Suffer through and quit changing stuff on them. They are not getting the big variety they would in nature. When you make drastic changes to them in captivity, it can have drastic effects. The doggie bag works fine for half the cost of Mazuri. Those who say differently haven't tried it.

[Shadera]

Those who say differently haven't tried it.

See my post above. I have actually tried the dog food, and a week into adding it into the Mazuri 50/50 in their wire hoppers both soft furs and regular rats started wiping out entire litters. They also quickly started to look greasy and stunk more. It continued that way for a few weeks before I put them back on 100% Mazuri. Could it have been something else? Sure it could have. But I've been raising my own rats for several years now and nothing else had changed in their environment. The only ones who actually seemed to thrive on the dog food were my mice.

I guess some people love it, some people hate it, and some won't have an opinion either way. Myself, I'm sticking to giving my breeder animals rat food and no dog food, and that's based on my personal experiments. To claim that "those who say differently haven't tried it" is pretty condescending, but at least that's what I've come to expect from you so I'm not surprised.

[suzuki4life]

See my post above. I have actually tried the dog food, and a week into adding it into the Mazuri 50/50 in their wire hoppers both soft furs and regular rats started wiping out entire litters. They also quickly started to look greasy and stunk more. It continued that way for a few weeks before I put them back on 100% Mazuri. Could it have been something else? Sure it could have. :

a week into it your entire setup changed that severely all from merely adding another food to your hopper?(in addition to the mazuri)

Sorry but I call b/s on this one. Why? because you did not wean them from anything, you added a new option to their diet. This is like saying your animals changed behavior because you put a red chair in the same room. If Mazuri supplied them with the needed material which avoided their objectable behvior it was still being offered, hence your setup never changed. You have this mind set that "dog food is for dogs", so you were biased and looked for reasons it would fail.

Depending on type of dog food you offered, their feces could have had more odor. Higher protein= more odor. Watch "Manswers" if you want the long winded explaination online if you want.

But as said before, the TSC dog food has VERY similar ingredients as lab block. It also has animal protein which Mazuri uses but Harlen doesn't. Apparently due to success rates of using both lab blocks, it doesn't matter if the rats are fed animal OR palnt protein, they produce off of both. From my own personal experience, switching from Mazuri to harlen has huge and very tragic initial losses very similar as to those expressed before. That is of course based on a very quick and forced weaning situation.

I have experimented with mazuri, Kent, harlen, Purina, ABM hog feed, TSC hog feed, Zeigler, Old Roy (years ago) and TSC Doggie bag. Bang for the buck goes to the TSC.

[SnakeKB]

I'm with Suzuki. My rats are doing fantastic on the doggy bag food. I noticed decreased litters on the hog feed so I switched my soft furs to dog food and the litters are back to over 12 and the soft furs are getting bigger faster than before. The large rats are producing wonderfully and the babies grow extremely fast. It really does work if you stick with it.

[jben]

Thanks all for replying everyone.

the doggie bag is fine.

Remind me, did I tell you before or not....let your rats alone.

Yes you can wean them to a new diet, however...wean

Do not just up and switch diets on them.

an extreme diet change, a change in temps and many other factors could be leading to what you have experienced. Mazuri and doggie bag in the same hopper and most rats will rush to feeding on the doggie bag, what happens to those that don't? they cause stuff like this to happen. There's a good chance of switching them back will have the same effect. Suffer through and quit changing stuff on them. They are not getting the big variety they would in nature. When you make drastic changes to them in captivity, it can have drastic effects. The doggie bag works fine for half the cost of Mazuri. Those who say differently haven't tried it.

Suzuki -
I have been following your advice, I don't bother the rats at all except when adding fresh water, food and cleaning which is on Tuesdays and Fridays(cleaning), other than that I don't see them and I have had great results up until my male died but I have two males almost ready for the females. I have not gone out to buy Mazuri yet because of work, extra hours and all but after reading some more advice I have changed my mind. I will stop changing their diet and stick with TSC but I must admit that when I changed the diet I did not wean them, it was from one day to the next. It never crossed my mind that it would affect them so much, hey lesson learned right. Hopefully my production picks up again. Thank you

[suzuki4life]

Thanks all for replying everyone.



Suzuki -
I have been following your advice, I don't bother the rats at all except when adding fresh water, food and cleaning which is on Tuesdays and Fridays(cleaning), other than that I don't see them and I have had great results up until my male died but I have two males almost ready for the females. I have not gone out to buy Mazuri yet because of work, extra hours and all but after reading some more advice I have changed my mind. I will stop changing their diet and stick with TSC but I must admit that when I changed the diet I did not wean them, it was from one day to the next. It never crossed my mind that it would affect them so much, hey lesson learned right. Hopefully my production picks up again. Thank you

keep them on a consistent diet, then use them as your garbage disposal. Mine get any meats we do not eat including bones. Fresh veggies normally will be taken eagerly. I also will toss in extra meal worms or super worms on occasion. With your cleaning schedule this will be no big deal.

[tomfromtheshade]

I have been ridiculously busy and I haven't been around lately, but just look at the labels folks. The Doggy Bag is practically lab block. It has just a touch more protein and that's about it.

My entire colony is pumping out about 12 pups per litter on Doggy Bag. I will occasionally have losses when moms play tug of war with babies, but they're not cannibalizing them for nutrients. In fact, when a pup dies I usually pull it out of the tub uneaten.

Overcrowding, lack of food, or lack of water are usually the main causes for larger rats killing and eating smaller rats.

[jben]

keep them on a consistent diet, then use them as your garbage disposal. Mine get any meats we do not eat including bones. Fresh veggies normally will be taken eagerly. I also will toss in extra meal worms or super worms on occasion. With your cleaning schedule this will be no big deal.

Thank you, will do.

I have been ridiculously busy and I haven't been around lately, but just look at the labels folks. The Doggy Bag is practically lab block. It has just a touch more protein and that's about it.

My entire colony is pumping out about 12 pups per litter on Doggy Bag. I will occasionally have losses when moms play tug of war with babies, but they're not cannibalizing them for nutrients. In fact, when a pup dies I usually pull it out of the tub uneaten.

Overcrowding, lack of food, or lack of water are usually the main causes for larger rats killing and eating smaller rats.

Hey Tom - I'm going to stick with Doggy Bag and offer scraps like Suzuki adviced. I keep 1.2 breeders per tub and remove the weaned rats at 4 weeks. Their food and water and refilled twice per week with neither never going empty. Thanks

[jasbus]

Hey guys,
I lurk more than I post here, but I thought I'd put in my .02..

I've been breeding rodents for years, both for pet trade and feed. I breed everything from rats/mice to ASF, Degu, spiny, hamsters and gerbils, hedgehogs, sugargliders, birds, you name it.
On rats, I've literally tried every conceivable diet out there. I always go back to a quality rodent pellet, every single time for my breeders. Currently, I have around 150 breeding female rats, and I just bought an additional 40 for another rack I just finished, and to bring in some new blood. When I do have cannibalistic rats, I flag them, give them another chance, then it's off to be fed off if they do it again.
I really believe that 90% of canilbal rats are doing it because of dietary issues. Then, you just have the bad ones that are just going to eat other rats no matter what.
I feed either Mazuri 6F, or Purina LabDiet, or a mixture of both. The LabDiet has more protein, and I seem to get better production and recovery on that, but the cost difference is $8 a bag at $28.50 per 50# bag. So, in short, 90% of the time, I use Mazuri 6F, until I run out, then, its off to my local feed store, who stocks the Labdiet for me...
Get some of your buddies together, and buy from a wholesaler, buy as many bags as you can afford, and you'd be amazed at the volume discount.
I pay $20.40 for a 50# bag of Mazuri if I buy at least 20 bags, $21.90 if I buy at least 10.
I work with another pet store that delivers my fish to me, and we usually purchase the minimum to get the maximum discount every two weeks.
If you find a friend that'll let you tack onto his order, you'll get the discount without having to have a business license or wholesale license. In a lot of cases, the wholesalers are willing to sell even a few bags at more of a "retail" price.
People are out there, just go find them... talk to your local pet store, find out where they get rodents from, chances are, it's a local breeder. I sell rats and mice in my store as well to other pet stores and snake breeders. Most pet stores don't mind the questions, as long as you're not elbowing in for competition.

Sorry, forgot to add... I also use doggy bag for all my mice/rat grow outs. Once I wean a rat, they get rodent diet for the first week in a weaner tub. The next week, when they're moved to a big boy tub, they get 50/50 rodent/doggy bag, and from then on, it's 100% dog food.
Doggy bag, as crappy quality as it is for dogs, is excellent for grow out rodents... 18% protein is good enough even in crowded tubs of grow outs...

[tomfromtheshade]

You guys are forgetting...Mazuri is 16% protein. Doggy Bag actually has more protein LOL.