What specifically is it that causes the wobble that spiders carry?

[Alexandra V]

I'm doing a science fair project and trying to find out if there is a possible link between the gene that causes the neurological disorder of spider balls and people who are predisposed to shake/wobble (i.e. parkinson's, etc.)

Does anyone know the exact gene or gene combination that makes spiders do this? Or where else could I look that would be a good source?

[Freakie_frog]

In short... Nope

[Alexandra V]

In short... Nope

Agh, thanks. Leave it to me to find the one subject that has no answer :/

[Serpent_Nirvana]

Yeah ... What he said.

Some rule outs might be: cerebellar hypoplasia, peripheral neuropathy, vestibular disorder, demyelination/myelination deficit, neurotransmitter derangement, just 'cos they feel like it, etc., etc.. (I'm tired and some of those might be way off, so feel free to rip those apart as you see fit ...)

Could still be a wicked cool science fair project tho.

[OhhWatALoser]

no one gives a crap about snakes enough to find out, sorry

[JordanAng420]

There's a theory in leopard geckos (the enigma morphs of the leo world exhibit a lot of the same symptoms that spiders do) that maybe the animals in question suffer from a Thiamine deficiency...thiamine is responsible for cellular repair and development, especially the parts of the brain where motor function is controlled. Never been proven, but it makes sense if you think about it....

[Serpent_Nirvana]

There's a theory in leopard geckos (the enigma morphs of the leo world exhibit a lot of the same symptoms that spiders do) that maybe the animals in question suffer from a Thiamine deficiency...thiamine is responsible for cellular repair and development, especially the parts of the brain where motor function is controlled. Never been proven, but it makes sense if you think about it....

That's a neat theory! Polioencephalomalacia (thiamine deficiency) is always supposed to be on your differential list for small ruminant neuro signs ... (Laughing 'cos I just took an exam on that this morning, ha!) I would think it would be possible that these guys could have a congenital defect in thiamine absorption.

The only problem I have with that is that I was under the impression that the signs were more constant in thiamine deficiency. One of the things that seems so baffling to me about the spider neuro signs is that they are so sporadic in some animals. They'll go for weeks on end acting totally normal, then one day do a little spider dance, then go back to being normal. Or some will just hold their heads funny, or some have an intention tremor ("wobble") ...

I told a veterinary neurologist about this topic and he suggested that the sporadic nature of it, and the fact that it seems to happen particularly when the animals are stimulated, makes it sound similar to narcolepsy in Doberman Pinschers. In dogs, narcolepsy is thought to be caused by a deficiency of neurons that produce a protein called hypocretin, and if you Google hypocretin there's an article about how Parkinson's patients have a similar deficiency ..! So, maybe Lexielightning is on the right track ..?

Of course, we can always just do what you always do in medicine when you don't know the cause of disease: blame it on autoimmune dysfunction!

[JordanAng420]

That's a neat theory! Polioencephalomalacia (thiamine deficiency) is always supposed to be on your differential list for small ruminant neuro signs ... (Laughing 'cos I just took an exam on that this morning, ha!) I would think it would be possible that these guys could have a congenital defect in thiamine absorption.

The only problem I have with that is that I was under the impression that the signs were more constant in thiamine deficiency. One of the things that seems so baffling to me about the spider neuro signs is that they are so sporadic in some animals. They'll go for weeks on end acting totally normal, then one day do a little spider dance, then go back to being normal. Or some will just hold their heads funny, or some have an intention tremor ("wobble") ...

I told a veterinary neurologist about this topic and he suggested that the sporadic nature of it, and the fact that it seems to happen particularly when the animals are stimulated, makes it sound similar to narcolepsy in Doberman Pinschers. In dogs, narcolepsy is thought to be caused by a deficiency of neurons that produce a protein called hypocretin, and if you Google hypocretin there's an article about how Parkinson's patients have a similar deficiency ..! So, maybe Lexielightning is on the right track ..?

Of course, we can always just do what you always do in medicine when you don't know the cause of disease: blame it on autoimmune dysfunction! :rofl:

ROFLMAO! THAT...is an awesome post. Great information!

[wstphal]

Of course, we can always just do what you always do in medicine when you don't know the cause of disease: blame it on autoimmune dysfunction!

Except they hatch like this and autoimmune stuff usually occurs later in life than that.

But yeah, you're right.

I really want to know what the basis of wobble in spider BPs and also stargazing in corn snakes. That one is known to be mendelian recessive. It cropped up originally in starkissed corns. But knowing what the gene is might be really, really cool.

Oh, I cropped it out, but you're right, my spider sometimes does look like she has intention tremor!

[Alexandra V]

Except they hatch like this and autoimmune stuff usually occurs later in life than that.

Not always. I've known people who hatched out spiders that didn't have a wobble for quite some time, and then it just popped up out of nowhere... But yeah, a lot of them do hatch like that, so it's probably not autoimmune.