Spider spin? What about morphs with "spider" in the genes?

[Hefner]

I am just now jumping into ball pythons (go me!) and I am the most excited about anything with "bee" in the name: Bumble bee, Honey bee, Killer bee, etc... I am concerned that they are prone to the head wobble and spin of spiders since they are genetically spiders as well as pastel, etc... I can't find any articles on this. Can anyone enlighten me?

[mainbutter]

The presence of the spider trait in any ball python will cause some degree of head wobble. The two are inseparable.

There is no logical reason to assume that the presence of a single allele, in particular those that are bred for in ball pythons, can 'cure' or deactivate the spider trait. If it was deactivated, then the rest of the spider trait (pattern etc) wouldn't be present.

[Hefner]

okay, fair enough. I just never see anyone make mention of multiple gene morphs having prevalent wobble issues...

[mainbutter]

okay, fair enough. I just never see anyone make mention of multiple gene morphs having prevalent wobble issues...

That's because combo morphs make too much money for people to want to mention defects of their beautiful animals, and in general the defect is pretty widely known so it's usually safe to assume anyone throwing down more than $500 on a snake knows a bit about it.

My opinion on the subject is that spiders thrive in captivity, even with wobble. I don't find anything unethical about keeping or breeding the trait. Spiders eat, live, thrive, breed, poop, and everything else just as well as your average normal ball python.

[El Gran Pito]

Yeah, I think the inherent defects of the spider gene shouldn´t be enough to not working with it.

regards

[Kysenia]

The spider wobble trait will have potential to show in any morph that has the spider gene

[OhhWatALoser]

okay, fair enough. I just never see anyone make mention of multiple gene morphs having prevalent wobble issues...

Why would you worry about it?

[Hefner]

I would "worry about it" because genetically linked imperfections of any kind are a huge deal in the gecko world where I am coming from. Ball pythons are still new to me and I am quickly finding out that there are different standards and expectations when dealing with designer morphs.

In geckos a kinked tail could be genetic or it could be temperature flux related from incubation. Either way, the gecko community at large spurns anyone selling these animals and some encourage culling them upon hatching. Similarly to the spider wobble, enigma geckos have a head tilt/spin/wobble that sometimes manifests in examples of this morph. Again, there is a negative association with purchasing, selling or breeding these animals because they are not "perfect." I simply hesitated to jump in head first into working with genes known to have issues. But if the community at large is not as judicious (assuming that the animal can function well on its own) then I am less concerned that my new bumblebee will develop an undesirable trait for which I would be scrutinized. That's all.

[OhhWatALoser]

I would "worry about it" because genetically linked imperfections of any kind are a huge deal in the gecko world where I am coming from. Ball pythons are still new to me and I am quickly finding out that there are different standards and expectations when dealing with designer morphs.

In geckos a kinked tail could be genetic or it could be temperature flux related from incubation. Either way, the gecko community at large spurns anyone selling these animals and some encourage culling them upon hatching. Similarly to the spider wobble, enigma geckos have a head tilt/spin/wobble that sometimes manifests in examples of this morph. Again, there is a negative association with purchasing, selling or breeding these animals because they are not "perfect." I simply hesitated to jump in head first into working with genes known to have issues. But if the community at large is not as judicious (assuming that the animal can function well on its own) then I am less concerned that my new bumblebee will develop an undesirable trait for which I would be scrutinized. That's all.

i will say thats a fair answer. heres just about everything you need to know

There is a very small group which refuses to work with spiders, because of the famous wobble but the other 99% of the hobby realize that all of them still eat, thrive, and do well in captivity.

There isn't one reported case of the wobble being a problem to the above, and if it was a problem, natural selection would work its wonders by design.

There are alot of spiders that don't show any signs at all. or some people like to say they have a wobble but you just can't see it..... which makes no sense to me personally but w/e, i can roll with that.

it can't be bred out. some "no wobble" spider produce spiders with wobbles and vise-versa. it appears to be pretty random the degree of wobble a spider gets. some get it as babies and outgrow it, some are fine as babies and get it as adults. there appears to be no pattern to it by any means.

Get your bee, I promise you won't be disappointed

[Hefner]

Very helpful, thanks for the info.