Beginner breeding?

[SpartaDog]

So obviously I'm new here. I've had a male normal ball python for a little over a year now. I bought him as just a pet. However, as I'm sure you all know, the lil buggers are really freaking addictive. My friends agree and they all want one now too.

I don't think he's old enough to be bred yet, but I think in the future, my best friend and I would like to breed my Ramses to her....well she doesn't have one yet. Anyway, we're hoping that selling the offspring will help make college a little more bearable. I'd rather spend time taking care of lil snake babies than party. XD

So I'm sure that breeding these guys is more lucrative than expensive, or else you guys wouldn't do it. My question is, is it better to get a normal female, breed them and sell the offspring for $35 each until we've got enough, and then buy a cheap morph like a pastel? Or would it be better to just jump straight to the morphs? I've been doing some browsing and finding a female pastel under $150 (the most my friend wants to spend on the snake alone) is extremely difficult.

Thoughts?

[ericzerka24]

Its more expensive then you'd imagine. Enclosures, heating, food, substrate, incubator, thermostats, etc...

[seeya205]

A male can be ready to breed as early as 6 months. You need to check for sperm plugs! I would invest in a spider, pastel, mojave or cinnamon. They are reasonable priced and will give you a better return on your investment. After feeding the babies and your time, you will not money off them. It takes a couple clutches just to pay off the equipment and everything before you see a return! It is fun and more of just a hobby for most unless you breed on a large scale!

[SpartaDog]

Well she's already got a tank, gauges, substrate, and hides. I've got some extra heating equipment from past reptiles. We're also both artists and musicians so that can help until the snakes do pay themselves off, and even afterward. I don't know about her, but I would love to become a bigtime breeder someday, and I figure it's never too early to start, right?

And the thing is, she's definitely getting one. I just figured we might as well make them a pair and get some money and experience out of it.

[Kyle@theHeathertoft]

I don't think he's old enough to be bred yet, but I think in the future, my best friend and I would like to breed my Ramses to her....well she doesn't have one yet. Anyway, we're hoping that selling the offspring will help make college a little more bearable. I'd rather spend time taking care of lil snake babies than party. XD

Bear in mind that going into breeding EXPECTING to make a profit is a hard way to do it, you have to spend money to earn money, and these are animals that take time to grow before breeding, cost money as far as upkeep, and sometimes clutches fail or females don't breed or god knows what. Going into it with the expectation of breaking even in five years is ambitious IMO.

Look at me...by the end of this year I'll have spent over $1,000 on snakes, a few hundred on feeders and tubs and substrate and water dishes and electricity...and I don't have a single clutch yet. I'm 100% loss at this point.

That's okay though, because I plan to breed not for profit (though breaking even would be awesome), I know of morphs I want that I can breed for as a hobby. Any superfluous snakes can be sold, if they sell...which is another issue. I know of a lot of breeders who sometimes can't seem to sell a perfectly awesome snake to save their lives!

So my advice, as a hobbyist, is to put the brakes on and rethink why you want to breed. Is it for the love of the snakes? Is it to create morphs to treasure and enjoy? Is it for profit?

So I'm sure that breeding these guys is more lucrative than expensive,

See my little math calculation above. I'm gonna be close to $1,700 in the hole by 2011, with a chance at MAYBE one, two clutches of single-morph co-dom eggs...IF I manage to get even that!!! For me, it's definitely WAY more expensive than lucrative!!!!

or else you guys wouldn't do it

I recently opted to invest in a Mojave female for my Mojave male. The hope is that within a few years, I'll get a clutch from them that might, if I'm lucky, have a Super Mojave. But I'm gonna be out a lot of money before that happens.

I do think the only way to profit is to breed combo morphs.

My question is, is it better to get a normal female, breed them and sell the offspring for $35 each until we've got enough, and then buy a cheap morph like a pastel? Or would it be better to just jump straight to the morphs? I've been doing some browsing and finding a female pastel under $150 (the most my friend wants to spend on the snake alone) is extremely difficult.

Thoughts?

Buy a morph. I'd go for something that combos nicely, like a Mojave...Pastel...Spider...something like that. Then double it up.

And consider yourself lucky to break even until you get some killer, stellar looking snakes.

But again, what do I know? I've never yet hatched a clutch (which for me will be about another $200 to $500 investment, for the incubator and all the other necessities!) and am right now in the process of buying morphs (I'm rather proud of my little collection!), raising them up, and basically bleeding money through the nose with no return. And I couldn't be happier.

[Kyle@theHeathertoft]

Well she's already got a tank,

If you breed you are likely to end up with a fair number of snakes, and tanks SUCK when it comes to cleaning, not to mention they take up a tonne of space.

I made the switch to tubs early on and have never looked back.

Also remember each python needs it's own tub, and that you need to be prepared to house, feed, heat and otherwise care for any snakes you breed that you cannot sell.

OH, and one more thing...every year, as the market becomes more and more saturated with morphs, those morphs come down in price to reflect supply/demand. Meaning that to make money, you need to invest a fair bit to get a profitable snake...and by the time they are breeding they may not be so valuable. I know a fellow who bought a pair of Pastels back when they were still fairly expensive...and he never made back what he bought them for, and finally sold them dirt cheap. He had a financial loss on that pair. It happens.

[SpartaDog]

That's okay though, because I plan to breed not for profit (though breaking even would be awesome), I know of morphs I want that I can breed for as a hobby. Any superfluous snakes can be sold, if they sell...which is another issue. I know of a lot of breeders who sometimes can't seem to sell a perfectly awesome snake to save their lives!

So my advice, as a hobbyist, is to put the brakes on and rethink why you want to breed. Is it for the love of the snakes? Is it to create morphs to treasure and enjoy? Is it for profit?
And consider yourself lucky to break even until you get some killer, stellar looking snakes.

Well, I was hoping to make money doing something I love. I'm a firm believer in the "If you work doing something you love, you'll never work a day in your life" philosophy. I'm definitely passionate about snakes, and especially balls. But you guys seem to be doing a good job of talking me out of it.

But again, what do I know? I've never yet hatched a clutch (which for me will be about another $200 to $500 investment, for the incubator and all the other necessities!) and am right now in the process of buying morphs (I'm rather proud of my little collection!), raising them up, and basically bleeding money through the nose with no return. And I couldn't be happier.

Well I've seen ads on Kingsnake and Faunaclassifieds, and a good portion of them get offers. Of course they don't say whether those play out, but.

I dunno. It seems I'll be waiting until after college then. Thanks for the input, guys, and for knocking some sense into me before it was too late.

[j_h_smith]

Reailty sucks, doesn't it?

Jim Smith

[jlawson]

Reailty sucks, doesn't it?

Jim Smith

Yep! Sure does. I was going through the same thoughts about a year ago. I think it would be an awesome experience to breed BP's but after much thought and consideration, I decided that I couldn't devote THAT much time needed to each and every BP. That was my deciding factor. I was also completing my MBA as well. I'll do it one day...just not right now.

[seeya205]

It's okay to breed bps but to expect it to help pay for college is unrealistic! Go ahead a breed for the enjoyment!