Captivity created basic morphs.

[Oxylepy]

How many morphs have been bred for/created in captivity? For instance selective breeding to create new morphs.

I remember, vaguely, reading somewhere that one of the first groups of Lucys were produced from breeding albinos, possibly a horridly incorrect piece of info, but I was wondering if there was any truth in it.

Or have all morphs been produced from wild caught individuals?

[OhhWatALoser]

to my knowledge no one has seen a mutation created in their collection, that would be awesome, tho someone please correct me if im wrong and tell the story.

I pretty sure everything has been pulled out of the wild. Tho with recessive traits, i could see the orginal het animal being pulled out of the wild and then the first visual animal being produced in captivity, thats what happened with the albino green tree.

selective breeding doesn't create a new morph, it does create some pretty cool looking animals tho. lipstick albino boas are still albinos.

first lucy were made from russo hets. then lesser x phantom. yea that albino story is bs.

[Serpent_Nirvana]

What's your definition of a "morph?"

I assume you're not talking about combo morphs, since obviously all of those (with the exception of the platty, if you want to call that a combo) have been created in captivity AFAIK ... (Someone please correct me if I've missed one, but I don't recall any other WC animals turning out to carry two different, separable traits ...)

If you mean the discreet simple Mendelian traits we all know and love, to my knowledge none of those have popped up randomly in collections, but I could be wrong ...

If you mean polygenic traits that have been selected for to create discreet bloodlines with distinct traits, I don't know about too much of that going on in the ball python world -- I know that is much more popular in bloods and boas, and chondros, too, I think, though I know much less about the chondros.

All I can get out of the albino/lucy story is that maybe somebody was talking about snows as being the "original white snake" ..?

[mainbutter]

To the best of my understanding, supposedly the Carpet Python jaguar trait popped out of nowhere from a normal to normal breeding.

[Oxylepy]

It could have been a snow I had been reading about.

As far as what I was asking, I said "basic" to distinguish it from "combo" or "designer" morphs. I am only talking about basic morphs. That said this could easily contain polygenetic/multiple allele morphs being selected for mutations that people like (as it does create new "lines" at the same genetic spot (if multiple alleles, polygenetic would be different, of course, as that consists of multiple genes interacting to form something (height)))

To the best of my understanding, supposedly the Carpet Python jaguar trait popped out of nowhere from a normal to normal breeding.

This is what I'm talking about, and that is a fantastic concept. Unless, of course, it is a recessive trait, in which case both parents would be hets for the trait, which isnt really what I am asking about since that could easily just be from the wild snakes passing it on to offspring.

[mainbutter]

The jaguar trait has been proven co-dominant, but fatal in the homozygous form. Homozygote jaguars are leucistic and die in the egg (though I think there are a few rare cases of some hatching out and dying shortly after)

So as far as the originator of the jaguar claims, a co-dom trait popped out of nowheresville.

[loonunit]

Leucistics, both blue- and black-eyed, were "created" by line breeding of their respective "het" forms. Blue-eyeds were created by line breeding (and then later cross-breeding) of lessers and mojaves and russos and mochas; ivories and black-eyes were created by line breeding of yellowbellies and fires, respectively. I don't believe either blue- or black-eyed forms of solid white snakes have been caught in the wild? I'm not 100% certain about ivories.

Albinos actually have nothing to do with the genetics of leucism. And while albinism is a recessive trait, it's apparently somewhat common, as multiple specimens have been found in the wild. Ditto for piebalds and ghosts.

Most combo morphs (bumblebees, pewter, lemonblasts) were "created" in captivity, and have never been seen in the wild.

[Oxylepy]

That, yup, stuff like that is what I am looking for. Simple codom/dom morphs spontaneously popping up. Or new recessive morphs popping up at the same spot in the genetic code (breed a bunch of albinos, create one with a genetic stripe, find out it is only produced in the albino form and cant be bred out but you still get an albino when bred to a normal albino (example, and a poor one... I have no imagination right now))

[Caz]

Leucistics, both blue- and black-eyed, were "created" by line breeding of their respective "het" forms. Blue-eyeds were created by line breeding (and then later cross-breeding) of lessers and mojaves and russos and mochas; ivories and black-eyes were created by line breeding of yellowbellies and fires, respectively. I don't believe either blue- or black-eyed forms of solid white snakes have been caught in the wild? I'm not 100% certain about ivories.

Albinos actually have nothing to do with the genetics of leucism. And while albinism is a recessive trait, it's apparently somewhat common, as multiple specimens have been found in the wild. Ditto for piebalds and ghosts.

Most combo morphs (bumblebees, pewter, lemonblasts) were "created" in captivity, and have never been seen in the wild.

Just to add..: Piebald is a form of leucism.