How early is too early to breed a male?

[ifun.jc]

Hi guys, would like your opinions on this.

Was offered a 2010 Male VPI axanthic baby from a reputable breeder. When i asked if it was an early 2010 he said it was a june baby, and said that if fed right it could be ready by the end of the year. He said he produces stuff as late as july and has them bred for him in November.

Ive read that it's possible to do this. Where i do not doubt his knowledge and experience, i am just curious if there are any ill effects on the young snake being bred to 3-4 females so early on.

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

ian


p.s this was on my other thread in genetics and i got no response, probably my own fault because it did not apply to that thread. Hope to hear from the experience of you guys.

[Oxylepy]

I'm pretty sure there is nothing wrong with it. If the male is capable of producing sperm, he is capable of breeding. As a rule of thumb it seems 500g is about the minimum size for a young male to try and breed him. If it's an old snake that's small that could be different. I've heard of people breeding males around 300g before and being successful however those individuals can "read" the snake. 1000g seems to be a common size for older males being used as breeders, for some reason I dont hear much about males that are 2000g (like my oldest male).

Its possible to take a snake from 70g to 500g in only a few months, and probably could be achieved simply by feeding 10% (of their body mass) every 3-5 days. I have two of my snakes on a 15-20%/week feeding schedule and I have seen one female gain 400g (1300 (empty) to 1700 (full)) in less than a month and my male jump from 500g to 700g. When they hit the weight I want them at I will reduce the amount of food they get. It seems before I was underfeeding them (they were eating based on diameter) but they're actually looking quite nice now (no skin between scales, not triangular).

But, yes, males can be bumped up to breeding size rapidly. I, personally, wouldnt give them over 30% their body mass in a week and probably wont ever give them more than 20%.

[ifun.jc]

But how often would a male be producing sperm plugs or sperm by such an age? is it a rarity?

thanks for your input oxylepy

[Lolo76]

I started breeding my pastel at around 450-500g... not sure of his actual age, but well under a year old. He took to the breeding right away, and continued locking with two girls regularly. One of those girls laid a nice clutch (6 good eggs, 1 infertile) last month, and the other will hopefully ovulate soon - her breeding was slowed down by a feeding issue. So while I don't have the actual proof yet, it seems young boys can do the job! I'm no expert, but I imagine they wouldn't waste time locking if sperm wasn't present... put the male in if you want, and just see if he decides to lock up.

[seeya205]

Usually by 6 months old, they start producing sperm plugs! Pop him closer to breeding time and see if he is producing sperm plugs and if he is, he is ready for breeding! It is very possible with good feeding that he will be ready by this season!

[Lolo76]

Its possible to take a snake from 70g to 500g in only a few months, and probably could be achieved simply by feeding 10% (of their body mass) every 3-5 days.

To answer this part of your question, I'd say it's possible in 4-5 months with certain snakes. I got three July '09 babies last summer, and two of them were very rapid growers! Julius the Mojave was 500g by mid-December (5 months old), and now weighs over 1100g at a year old... he's a beast, LOL. Vinnie the Spider hit 500 about a month after Julius, whereas the other baby (het Albino) didn't get there until March-April. They all eat approx the same diet, and I don't "power-feed" or anything - they got 1-2 mice weekly for maybe the first six months, and now get 2-3 weekly. Snakes will grow at different rates regardless of diet, especially within that first year.

[ImBooBy]

I just got an early 10 baby from the ATL repticon and I am expecting him to breed this winter. Remember that even in breeding season, they will still eat. Feeding males small meals in between breedings will help them along very well. I have read from someone's breeding page that had a 400gram male breed to a 2500gram female and created fertile babies so you never know.

[LadyOhh]

Just because you expect a male to be big enough doesn't mean that he will have viable sperm, even if he does have plugs. And even if he has plugs, whose to say that he knows how to use them???

DO NOT assume that your male will be ready if he is a baby this year, to breed for you in the Fall of this year.

It can happen. Does it happen often? Not really.

[MarkS]

I know people who have bred males as young as 4 months. I've done this myself with a 6 month old, but then he didn't breed at all the following year, stopped eating well and is still rather small. But this is just my experience with one male, these results may not be typical. I decided several years ago that I'm just not in that big of a hurry anymore and no longer breed males until they're at least a year and usually more.

[kellysballs]

I have had little luck breeding males under 1yr old.

I purchased DJ a male cinnamon in August 2008 he was 150grams. He was the fastest growing ball python I have ever owned he was at least 500 grams and had sperm plugs by the beginning of breeding season. He was continued to grow and eat through out breeding season, he locked up and bred 5 females that year. I produced 0 cinnamons. I backed him up with a more seasoned Spider.

I also tried to use my yearling albino male he was 400g and producing sperm plugs and over 500g by the end of the season. He did not show any interest in breeding at all and was not observed locking up with his het albino female at all that year.

So I would say if your male is large enough and producing plugs go for it but make sure you have a more seasoned male to back him up.