If it's ok to...

[SK_Exotics]

Anyone who questioned my intent with the post is "doing it wrong."

[rabernet]

I dont have an agenda, but i did want to just point out an ethical question to people who breed spiders. I am kind of new to these morphs.

I mean, if a trainwreck wobble can come out of no where, and people admit that a wobble is unfavorable, why breed them in the first place? Its like having everyone board the titanic knowing that it will probably sink, just because you want to keep ticket profits.

Again - those are YOUR personal ethics. If it's bothersome to YOU, then don't get spiders or any spider crosses. Those of us who aren't facing an ethical delimma will continue to breed and enjoy them.

That's what's so great about ball pythons - there's a morph for everyone!

[rabernet]

then why have an issue with me breeding for the wobble quality if i enjoy it?

Do you enjoy it?

[rabernet]

My only experience is a natural critical thinking mindset, i guess.
As a first generation immigrant, we were always taught to question someone intent when they are taking your money, thats all.

Edit:
Woah, btw, I didnt notice who posted that. I am new to ball pythons but I saw your vids online and I really like your animals and tips dude!

However, if you have decided that a spider wobble bothers you enough to start this thread, then one would conclude that you won't buy one. So how would someone with spiders for sale be taking your money when you aren't going to be shopping for one anyway?

[rabernet]

I posted this thread to help me form a REAL opinion for myself, not to call people out on their own.

Turns out all i get for trying to think outside the box is a bunch of bashing and misunderstandings. I post one thing and people go on the defense, perhaps because they see an issue with a custom that until now has not been looked at from a certain angle.

But you'd be wrong - it's been looked at ad nauseum. This topic pops up all the time, and there's always someone who challenges the ethics of those who choose to work with spiders for all the reasons you've outlined.

[cinderbird]

I dont have all day to read a book on here, i respond to the short and sweet posts. Granted the wordy people make good points, i would rather not write a novel trying to reply.

does not compute.

an now for more on topic posting... comparing the spider wobble to hip and elbow displacia in GSD's is not really the same thing. HD and ED negatively impact the quality of life of the animal, creating arthritis and sore joints and other problems that make it difficult for a dog (an active, people-pleasing creature) to do "its thing." Breeding for hip and elbow problems (or even not bothering to check for such issues before paring a male and female) are unacceptable to me. There is a very good reason that when I own a dog, be it a GSD, it will not be from American lines, and it will only be from someone who does all the proper testing (quality breeders folks, it doesn't matter the breed or species, quality counts).

Spiders, even those with a moderate (NOT severe/trainwreck) eat, breed, poop, sleep, and do everything that a normal bp without the wobble does.

I am planning to put spiders back into my collection, almost all of my favorite morphs are spider crosses. If i bred my animals and ended up with a trainwreck, I'd cull it. To me there is no sense in keeping an animal alive that is too wacked out to even eat on its own if it wants too. As a potential breeder, that is my choice to make, and it is a customers choice to not buy from me because i breed that morph.

[SK_Exotics]

What does cull mean?

[mozbink]

What does cull mean?

Euthenize immediatly once it is recognized that it has a defect or is already suffering, or will suffer due to said defect.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Cull means euthanize. If you breed ball pythons (or any other animal), you will at some point have to face this necessity. Animals may be born with deformities so severe that they cannot survive, or would have extremely poor quality of life even if they did. These animals have to be euthanized.

I think a trainwreck spider that cannot feed on its own is borderline--some people may be willing to nurse it along, while others choose to cull it.

The reason we breeders aren't all freaking out over the possibility of hatching a train wreck spider is because most of us who have been doing this for a few years have had to put down one or more hatchlings ALREADY, for various deformities. Not all hatchlings develop properly. Sometimes, things happen.

The risk with a spider clutch just doesn't seem significantly higher than with any other clutch. The 'train wreck' possibility is just one more thing among many that might go wrong, and it's a pretty low chance. Probably lower than other more typical deformities like eye and jaw malformation, severe kinking, and fusing.

I'm sorry our posts have exceeded your attention span, but I find it highly discourteous to ask a complex question, and then refuse to read complex answers.

[ericzerka24]

I've never seen a spider without a wobble. I'm sure there could be some out there but from my own experience, they all have it. My bumblebee that I got a few months ago only does it when he goes to feed. Its almost like he gets all excited and starts shaking. He is very healthy and my best feeder by far!

I know there are some very serious cases of the wobble but then again, there are also retarted people born every now and again as well. Should we stop people from breeding too so we don't have to worry about another mentally challanged person born again? Come on, get real....