OK that makes sense. I have tried to understand the ins and outs of this trying to get the panda, but i have just not been able to see it in my mind from reading all the info on here from the genetics. I will hate to miss breeding my pieds next year but it will just be one year and i am going to keep at least one female pied from my current clutch and breed her (or them if I decide to keep more than one female). I think the way it will work out if I keep all our females we are about to hatch and next year we keep the cinny het pied male they will all be ready to breed in 2012 and i will definately be able to increase my chances for a panda. Is there any idea what happens if you end up with a male and female panda and you breed them together?