BP keepers , Advice NEEDED PLZ

[killergerbil]

Hi there
This is my first post here
so heres my story

I got my ball python "Monty" In jan of this year, very gentle little guy
i bought him a 25 g tank and all is well up until after his shed he ate once then went off his food again

hes about 441grams and looks to be 2 half feet or so , my breeder told me snakes his age and being a male its normal for him to go off his food , he also suggests i get a rubber maid box and use that as housing for him,, im just wondering if anyone else has heard of this before , and also would like to hear if anyone else has had a problem with this before

thanks all Monty and I thank u

[killergerbil]

his tank temp humd water etc r fine , just wondering if u all have had same problems n if u heard about downsizing a snake to get them to feed iv tryed gerbils live /frozen frozen mice etc

[cinderbird]

Welcome to bp.net!

You say temps and humidity are fine..but what ARE they and what are you using to measure them?

OK, so i notice a ton of threads on here about "omg my snake wont eat." Ive compiled some info on fixing this issue. (Please excuse my run on sentences). Oh, and all this stuff has to do with F/T feeders unless otherwise noted.

The following information can be used after ruling out the other causes for refusals : PLEASE check the sticky care sheet for that info. ( your enclosure is appropriately sized for the snake, the temperatures and humidity are in the proper range and being measured with proper probes and temp units, hides are tight fitting and opaque etc).

- stress due to enclosure size
- stress due to frequent handling
- having the enclosure in a high traffic area
- etc.

Feeder Quality
The quality of your feeders matters. I had some older feeders who were not in the best shape, I got new much better looking, smelling and appearing feeders from a few vendors at a local show and it REALLY showed when i went to feed my snakes with these new feeders. Personally, if i have a refusal i don\'t re-freeze the rodent. I use quite a bit of time to defrost so i dont trust them. Luckily, i have a garbage disposal of a spider female and just give her the left overs.

When picking out feeders, look for clean whole animals (the occasional rodent missing a tail tip or foot is completely acceptable, as is the occasional urine stain especially on a white mouse or rat. Or a few poops). Rodents, even frozen ones do SMELL rodent-y. Its like an earthy musty smell. When the rodents smell FOUL you want to discard them.

Anyway, onto the more useful info:

PRE SCENT PRE SCENT PRE SCENT.
Pre scenting, i have noticed, will trigger most snakes to go into feeding mode. What I do personally, is stick the mice and rats im going to feed my snakes into an empty tub in their rack (i feed frozen thawed and happen to have empty rack space in my rack). I let the rodents defrost for about 5 hours or more. The larger items go over the heat tape, the smaller ones don\'t have to. I then take out a hair dryer and give all the rodents a quick blast with it on low. I usually have the hair dryer on, but not directly on the rodents because you dont want to cook them. Within 30 seconds all my snakes are out cursing their enclosures looking for food.

Other methods of presenting are leaving the rodents to thaw near the enclosure of the snake. Weather it be a live rodent or defrosting in a baggie with warm water and leaving the corner of the baggie open.

Always make sure your rodents are warm enough. They should feel warm to the touch (not hot, not cold). And make sure they are thoroughly defrosted. You can check this by squeezing the ribs and stomach of the rodent lightly. If you get give the rodent is defrosted. If you squeeze and you dont feel any movement of the ribs, then the rodent is not yet defrosted .

SWITCHING PREY TYPES and SCENTING:
Ball pythons can be pretty picky when it comes to their food. If they like mice, sometimes they want to stay on mice, but you want to move them to rats (for whatever reason you choose).

Always try just feeding the wanted prey type first, you\'d be surprised how many snakes just don\'t care and smell "rodent" instead of individualizing, and end up eating.

If you feed F/T, defrost 2 prey items that together reach the size of the prey item you want to feed your snake. Have one of them be the first prey type, and the other be the second prey type. Take the first prey item (hereby called mouse) and rub it all over the second prey item (we\'ll call that one rat). I usually try to rub the head, belly and genital area of the mouse on the rat. I don\'t really know rodent anatomy other than the gross anatomy stuff but i assume rodents have scent glands in their faces and genital areas. Do this pretty liberally. You might not be able to discern a difference between the two, but your snake may. Try to offer the rat (second item) once you\'ve done this. If the snake doesn\'t take it, try rubbing the mouse on the rat some more (this is called scenting). Try offering it again (make sure it is warm, the item may have cooled off by now).

Hopefully the snake will take it, if not, offer the first prey item first (mouse). Let the snake eat that item. Once it has finished and realigned its jaws offer the second item. Since the snake is in feeding mode, it may take the rodent since it already smells vaguely of its preferred type.

If this doesn\'t work, try it again at the next feeding. If you have to skip a feeding session to try to switch your snake it is ok. These snakes eat much more often in captivity than they do in the wild. Baby snakes can go with skipping a meal every once in a while. Until your snake switches, keep scenting the rodent by rubbing it with the other prey type.

With older, more established animals, skipping a few feeding sessions may be in order. Be aware that there are some snakes that will never switch. They would rather starve than eat prey type two.

Adult Animals
Sexually mature ball pythons (both males and females) usually go off feed during breeding season. These animals have enough energy stored so they can safely not eat for months. Personally, I have had a snake go off food for 5 months, be picky for another 2, then eat with gusto. Over this time, this 1100 gram snake lost maybe 100 grams. This is within the acceptable range. Don\'t fret if your 2,3 or 20 year old BP stops eating around November (in the northern hemisphere). Offer food a few times a month and when they are ready they will begin eating again.

Starting Babies
So, you just got your first ball python, its a cute little baby that weighs about 60 grams. Its head might be a little funny shaped because its thin, and it has a triangle look to its body where its spine is a little more apparent than it should be. You offer it a F/T rat, and when it dosen\'t take it, you worry.

It is possible to get an unstarted baby without realizing it. Most responsible breeders will make sure their babies have fed at least 2 times before selling them, but not every breeder or pet store is like this.

Let your baby settle in for 7 days with no handling except for cage maintenance (cleaning or weighing). After this 7 day period, I suggest offering a live hopper or small adult mouse. Remove any cage furniture that the rodent can hide in like vines or the second hide. Prescent the room by leaving the rodent in a secure container with a few air holes in it so your snake can smell it.

Introduce the rodent into the side of the enclosure OPPOSITE from the one your snake is on. Your snake will most likely be in its hide. The snake should get interested in the prey item but it will be unsure of itself. The process of striking, coiling and eating may take an hour or more for the snake to really figure it out. Just trust your snake. They are little predators and instinctively should know what to do. Dont leave your snake unattended with a live rodent. I keep a pair of hemostats handy just to keep a bitey rodent from snacking on my snake.

I would offer a live prey item to the snake at the next feeding. Then, at the third feeding, if you want to try switching your snake to F/T you can try it.

Pre scent (! ) youre prey item, make sure it is dry and offer it to your snake off of hemostats. Hold the prey item with the hemostats near the scruff or the shoulder blades. If your snake takes it off the hemostats, congrats! If not, try doing the zombie dance. The zombie dance is moving the rodent in natural ways simulating life so that your snake thinks the prey is alive. Move the rodent slowly, and dont harass the snake with it (ie, don\'t bump your snake in the nose or body with the rodent). If your snake is in feeding mode you\'ll be able to tell. (Intent stare, flickering tongue, "s" curve in the neck). If they are in feeding mode, you will probably elicit a feeding strike. If your snake strikes and constricts, give the tail of the rodent a few tugs to simulate struggling. This will further ingrain the feeding response and help to curb any spitting out of the rodent.

Once your snake strikes and constricts, leave it alone in a dim room. Keep an eye on it but don\'t pester it much. If you bother your snake too much it may spit out the prey item.

I\'ll be adding to this thread as i figure out more information. Hopefully this will shed some light on helping these sometimes stubborn snakes eat.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Yep.
His advice seems to be sound. A smaller cage may do the trick.

Air temp should be 80F, basking area should be 90F, there should be 2 small, tight hides (not half-logs), and a water bowl. Humidity should be 60%.

Rubbermaid or Sterilite bins are frequently used to house ball pythons. It's much easier to keep humidity up in a bin than a glass tank, and they also seem to hold heat better. Just be sure that the lid is clamped tightly (buy clamps). You can use a soldering iron to poke a row of holes along the top edge of the bin for ventilation--it's not necessary to overdo it, a single row will do. You can always add more if there's too much condensation.

It should be about time for males that were off feed for the winter to begin feeding again.

[killergerbil]

i do thank you for this info , i shall try thoughs methods and the small housing thx

[stevepoppers]

Very nice post, cinderbird.

And yes, killergerbil, your breeder's advice sounds good.

[cinderbird]

Very nice post, cinderbird.

Thank you, one of my canned replies ;p

[AlecHolmesReptiles]

It is not uncommon for a ball python to take a week or two off of feeding. (I believe the record is somewhere near 24 months...) Although that is NOT a good thing, a few weeks off here and there creates no problem for the snake. There are some tricks like leaving a frozen thawed rat in with your snake in a closed container inside its cage over night etc.... however NEVER leave a live rodent in with your snake without your supervision... It is common for new snake owners to freak out about their reptile not eating but it is important to remember they aren't like us, they can easily go two or three weeks without food.