Mystery Morph--- Help Me Figure Him Out!

[cboocks]

I am soooo sorry for your loss. Are you going to have a post mortem done to see what happened?

[Matt K]

Oh goodness I'm sorry. Definitely have him checked out to determine the cause of death, we'd all be wrenched to see a repeat tragedy like this.

Cheers,
-Matt

[SinisterSerpents]

Thank you both. I didn't keep him because I've heard (don't know if its true) that after a snake has been frozen an necropsy does no good because the temps do 'something' to the organs???? Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

I also just lost my male bumblee bee to an URI. Had taken him to the vet and had him on Baytril and thought he was getting better, then found him dead. I know my dinker didn't have an URI, first bc there were no signs, second he was in a completely different room than my bumble bee bc he was being quarentined.

Just had a lot of bad luck lately. Thinking about selling all my BP's and just sticking with the colubrids.

[Wh00h0069]

Sorry to hear about them both.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Just had a lot of bad luck lately. Thinking about selling all my BP's and just sticking with the colubrids.

Don't just jump out and sell off.... just do research, and figure out what you are doing wrong. I am not trying to insult you in any way, shape, or form... but when you have young, previously healthy snakes dying and getting respiratory infections, odds are it isn't bad luck but something you are doing wrong.

Don't know if there are any other threads on this but would you care to describe your set up and all your practices and procedures so we can help you trouble shoot?

[SinisterSerpents]

Don't just jump out and sell off.... just do research, and figure out what you are doing wrong. I am not trying to insult you in any way, shape, or form... but when you have young, previously healthy snakes dying and getting respiratory infections, odds are it isn't bad luck but something you are doing wrong.

Don't know if there are any other threads on this but would you care to describe your set up and all your practices and procedures so we can help you trouble shoot?

I totally understand what you are saying. My husband and I have kept some sort of snakes for over 10 years, and he had them before we met. So we've done the research and I feel that we know what we are doing. As far as their set up, we keep them in rack systems, some have back heat, some have belly heat (we are building more to eventually have them all on belly heat). Basking temps run around 88 or so and cool sides run around 79-80. Humidity is always on target. We totally clean their bins once a week if not twice and spot check every day. Water bowls are washed and cleaned every 2 days. Almost all eat F/T. All are in seperate bins. Anything else you'd need to know to help me??

I don't think that 2 snakes dying out of over 100 is too bad. My first personal snake was a BP and I still have him and he's well. Never had this to happen to any of my other BP's. (With the exception of a pastel girl that I got and she had an pneumonia and couldn't be saved even with medication treatment) I honestly don't think I'm doing anything wrong, and I do feel like its a string of bad luck. The bumble bee died from the URI or the Baytril I know, but my lil dinker just has be bumfuzzled. I'm thinking he had something internally wrong. I mean they could look healthy, but now be. So maybe he was not a 'previously healthy snake', but had something wrong from the get go that the naked eye couldn't see??

Thanks again!

[Serpent_Nirvana]

I didn't keep him because I've heard (don't know if its true) that after a snake has been frozen an necropsy does no good because the temps do 'something' to the organs???? Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

I'm so sorry for your loss He was a beautiful boy.

The freezing and thawing process does cause tissue damage, so while the basic structures of the organs are maintained, the pathologists have a really hard time interpreting anything on histopath (microscope slides). So, they might've been able to tell you if he had an enlarged heart, for example, or a big tumor somewhere, but if the body had been previously frozen, they might not have been able to tell you if there were viral inclusions somewhere, or if any nodules looked malignant, etc..

For future reference, if you can't get the body to the pathologist right away, the pathologists I've talked to recommend putting an animal in the 'fridge for a few days (as opposed to the freezer). They told me it's easier to interpret around a little bit of post-mortem necrosis than ice crystal damage.

IMO I think *most* (though obviously not all!) husbandry-error related disease is going to manifest first with at least some clinical signs (URI, bad shedding, anorexia, etc.) as opposed to sudden death, but one other thing I'd give a lot of thought to is: have you added any new animals recently and if so, how long (if at all) were they quarantined for?

Again, I am so sorry -- it *always* sucks to lose an animal, but sudden death is the worst because without a necropsy (which isn't always possible to do), you're always left wondering. There's probably a very good chance that it wasn't your fault -- a lot of "silent" things can cause sudden death, such as heart disease, and I do often wonder if these things are actually a lot more prevalent in our exotic pets than most people realize (especially those that already outwardly express a mutation -- ie, morphs).

[SinisterSerpents]

All of my animals are quarentined. We now have a sepearate room that we keep new animals in for a 7-8 weeks. Thanks so much for your info. That was very helpful. I'll have to remember the fridge trick.