Snake Inbreeding?

[OhhWatALoser]

How do you not understand what I said?

Normals as well as other morphs have been hatched with wobble. Did they have spiders in their ancestry?

Defects happen, doesn't mean its linked to anything. and did they have spider in their ancestry? im sure alot of them don't.

What has been proven exactly? That all spiders have wobble? Yes. That it can't be passed to non spider offspring? No I don't think anyone has proven this.

Every time someone has a spiderxsomething breeding and doens't report normals having a wooble (which there has to be thousands by now) is proof to me. just because a handful of snakes have a wooble negates the fact that the rest don't?

Normal offspring produced from spider breedings (non spider babies), IMO, should not be used to breed into other morphs.

I am a firm believer that the spider wobble can be passed onto all spider offspring. Any offspring can potentially be a carrier for the mutated gene that causes the wobble.

Where is the proof tho? Every single spider is a carrier for the wooble, which has to make it dominate, people say its link because the sibling don't have it, plain and simple if you ask me. I mean what other genetic scenario are you thinking is going on here? thats what i think im really not understanding you.

Just like some people will try to argue that inbreeding doesn’t affect BP's. I as well as many others can put money on it that it does.

Another issue all together... but again wheres the proof lol? I think outcrossing makes better looking animals with the right selective breeding, but I have yet to see any proof of inbreeding doing anything. and don't give me the bullcrap of look snake born without eyes, snake with kinks blah blah blah.... did you know unrelated breedings do that also? again defects happen, now if repeated breedings of related pairs constantly produced defected babies, that would be proof.

"as I recall the spider gene is a dominant gene, which would mean that only the spider offspring should or would have the wobble since it would be the only offspring that would have the spider genetics (normals would not carry any of the spider gene, hence no wobble)."


I am pretty sure that when BP's are bred that more than just the alleles for the color/pattern are being handed down to the offspring. All genes are passed on. Just because the color/pattern gene wasn’t passed doesn’t mean that a bad/deformed gene wasn't.

Just food for thought. Its more than just the dominant/recessive "visual" genes that we as breeders are dealing with.

[stevepoppers]

I suddenly got this theory for the spider gene that came to me here in another thread. If the gene that makes a spider look like a spider and the gene that makes it wobble are both in an area (locus?) controlled by a "switch" gene and we're only working with that switch gene, then there's no way we could separate the spider gene from the wobble gene without manual manipulation of the genome.

And the wobble seems most like an inner ear thing, especially because of how it effects the snake in no other way. You'd think if it was neurological or muscular, they'd have more problems.

No matter what, long term inbreeding will eventually lead to problems. Prove it out, then outbreed as much as possible.

[TessadasExotics]

but again wheres the proof lol? I think outcrossing makes better looking animals with the right selective breeding, but I have yet to see any proof of inbreeding doing anything. and don't give me the bullcrap of look snake born without eyes, snake with kinks blah blah blah.... did you know unrelated breedings do that also? again defects happen, now if repeated breedings of related pairs constantly produced defected babies, that would be proof.

Outcrossing and selective breeding is not inbreeding. Now let me emphasize, line (back) breeding is not the same, nor as bad as inbreeding siblingXsibling.

How can you say that any two snakes are not related? Breeder snakes can be sold many times. Offspring are sold all over. Its not controlled or monitored in any way.

Any one that has been breeding for a long time and that has tryed inbreeding sibXsib can tell you just how messed up the offspring can (and often will) be.

[TessadasExotics]

No matter what, long term inbreeding will eventually lead to problems. Prove it out, then outbreed as much as possible.

This would be nice if we all felt the same way. Unfortunatly we don't all see the same page.

[OhhWatALoser]

How can you say that any two snakes are not related? Breeder snakes can be sold many times. Offspring are sold all over. Its not controlled or monitored in any way.

we can't know sometimes, whats your point? But I can know a few generations are not related. go back far enough all snakes are related.

Any one that has been breeding for a long time and that has tryed inbreeding sibXsib can tell you just how messed up the offspring can (and often will) be.

how many people have breed sibxsib het for a recessive mutation or co dom or w/e? can anyone vouch that the offspring were messed up? i've seen a few good clutches tho. Sure if you take mom and dad, breed sibxsib, take thos babies breed sibxsib, take those babies breed sibxsib, take those babies breed sibxsib, im sure your going to start seeing things pop up (maybe). 1 or 2 generations, i would like to see proof.

I would also still like to hear your theory on the genetics of the spider wooble.

[AlecHolmesReptiles]

I personally would stay away from it. This is easy to do by holding back females and acquiring new males from other collections. You may get different opinions but this is an easy way to avoid any complications.