semi-newbie mltp ?s need help nd suggestions

[SashimiNSake]

Ok... I am not extremely new at this but i am paranoid

I have a tank... I believe it is 55 gal... it may be bigger i have been meaning to measure it to see... it was provided with the snakes

2 bp's... ones about 3.5ft and the other about 4ft

I use... during the day... a day bulb, a red light and a ceramic heat bulb and uth.... temps are about 91 on the hot side and about 86 on the cooler side... these are jus averages

at night it can range from 81 and 78 and the only difference is the day buld goes off

i use 2 temp probes which lie about an inch above the subtrate...

i have not found a hygrometer... u kno reads the humidity... that works for me.. because the one i had they rip off the wall every night with no failure... thye hoist their bodies on it an it pops right off the tank wall

i spray the tank about once or 2xs daily... and i am keeping saran wrap over screen on the cool side... i did see a post about diy foil coverage and will be doing that so i can effectively cover the hot and cold side without startin a fire or melting anything

one was shedding when i obtained them (april 29th and completely shed on May 1)... dont kno if it came off in one piece because when i woke up there were multiple pieces everywhere because they were laying on them... she currently still has a pink hue to her belly which kinda bothers me

current substrate: carefresh ultra premium pet bedding... they were using it before i obtained them... i liked it so i bought more
its easy to clean... not only cause its soft and fluff... but it comes in a range of colors... white is what i have and very easy to see any adverse conditions
my sister uses the pink for her gerbil lol

large ceramic water bowl and they came with a hide... which is about to be replaced because it is foul smelling and seems to be porous... only reason why i am still using it because i have not found a large enough hide for both snakes... it is the depth of the entire tank
it also spans about 2ft long so it is in the warm an cool sides at the same time... and it makes creaking sounds when the larger one hoists herself on top... has almost tilted it like a see-saw one night

they are active... both day and night.. mostly at night... they bask and appear to lay in the direction of the tv most nights

do not appear to be aggressive at all... lots of hissing and yawning at random moments... but none at me when i enter the tank... they allow me to handle them have not been struck at all

now the previous owner... stated she fed them 1 large rat every 3 weeks... doesn seem like enough to me
we are moving this saturday... and i don't know when i should feed them.. i do not want regurge because of the stress of the move... but i don want to wait too long as i have had them since 4.29 an havent fed them yet.

also... last thing... feeding live... she was feeding them live rats... i would pref and have fed f/t in the past... but i am willing to give live another chance... but only if i have to.
my plan is to remove them from their enclosure to separate plastic containers to feed an then return them to the enclosure once they have swallowed


thanks for listening and all the suggestions or comments... i would really appreciate good feedback as i'm a semi-new snake mommy... i have had bps and corns in the past but not really for a long time and never of this size

[angllady2]

Well, I am about to become very unpopular with you, hon. But, I'm going to be honest, so I'll take what comes.

First off, housing two snakes in ANY size enclosure is a BAD idea. It causes stress, aggression, can contribute to disease and it is not unheard off for the smaller snake to be attacked and killed. If you want to keep these snakes and do the best you can for them, separate them as soon as possible.

Second, a 55 gallon is really much too big for Ball Pythons, period. Balls are shy, secretive snakes who need small spaces to thrive. The random hissing you hear is a sure sign they are stressed out and unhappy. The two you have would be much more comfortable in 20 - 29 gallon setups for each snake. I won't talk to you about tubs because someone else will. A bonus to smaller enclosures is the temperatures and humidity will be much easier to maintain. You should try to go with UTH only, and that is nearly impossible with such a big area. Ball Pythons need belly heat to properly digest food. For the most part, the daylight bulb and ceramic heater only make it harder to keep humidity up, which is why the one shed all in pieces. Plus Balls don't bask like lizards do.

You will want to make sure when using UTH that the thermostat probe is touching the glass over the UTH. Because while the substrate might read 92, the glass could be much higher and that can lead to burns if the snake burrows and comes into contact with the glass.

Hides are easy and cheap. Upside down dishpans, unused oil change pans, clean mop buckets with the side cut down all make ideal and inexpensive hides. Plus they are easy to clean and sturdy. Just make sure the hide you choose seems too small. It sounds odd, but Balls love to squish into the smallest spaces they can. The hide should touch the snake on all sides when the snake is inside, otherwise it's too big. Some of my bigger guys wear their hides like a hat, but it's what makes them happy.

I think your substrate is okay, I've never heard of it being used for snakes, but I don't think it's harmful.

I don't recommend feeding a large rat to any Ball, no matter how big it is. Most Balls will do fine on one small/medium rat once a week. Larger prey items seem to contribute to more feeding refusals and erratic growth. Lots of big breeders stick with small/medium rats, so you know it works. Switching from live to F/T can be tricky. Your best bet is to change setups as soon as you can, don't feed yet. Once your new setups are ready and the snakes have been moved, wait 1 week before offering food. Thaw the F/T rat completely, I set mine out about 4 hours at room temperature, then I run them under hot water for a minute or two, dry them with a towel, then use a hairdryer to get them nice and dry and warm. Just before offering the rat, use the hairdryer to heat the head for about 30 seconds.

They may refuse to eat. If they do, wait 1 week before trying again. Don't worry about them going without food for a while it won't hurt them at all, and will make them more likely to take F/T for you.

I wish you all the best.

Gale

[Paysons Bps]

Sell your 55 gallon tank buy two 32 qt or 41 qt sterilite tubs and use paper towls as the substrate, its very cost efficiant, and it's alot better for your ball pythons the paper towls hold in hummidity, the smaller space calms down your ball pythons. Housing speratly is almost mandatory if you dont want to stress your snake out.
(just remember these are suggestions)

Good luck!
-Payson..

[Vypyrz]

Since you are moving this coming weekend, feed them now, and when you move, put them in separate enclosures, whether it be tanks or tubs...

[musicalKeyes]

Definitely some good advice above, but if you choose to feed them before you move, you have to have to have to separate them. Just imagine what would happen if they went for the same rat... not good.

Also, how big are they and do you know the sexes? Unwanted breeding is another issue and if the girl isn't big enough, it can cause her some problems.

Good luck!

[SashimiNSake]

I am no expert... but I am very observant... so please dont take anything offensively...
funny cause i get contradicting info from everyone

the bowl wont fit in a smaller tank... neither will the hide
that whole plastic tub thing and racks arent my preference... and plastic is porous and smells overtime... im allegic to newspaper ink
they take advantage of every inch of this 55gal

I am very aware of separating them during feeding... they each have their own tub when I am cleaning the tank or for feeding

they have been living together since they were hatchlings.
they are not aggressive to each other or to me...i try to handle them about 3xs a week, at night or late afternoon, one at a time. i havent been struck or attempted to strike at all
I wont be separating them... if the conditions are correct, they do not show any signs of aggression towards each other, and they are not opposite sex (i am having them sexed after the move... I was told they were 2 females but i need to be reassured)... there is no need for me to disrupt them and separate them... i could see if they were unfamiliar with each other but they arent.
there are 2- 7ft boas housed together at a local store here
I have successfully had 2 baby corns in the same 20gal enclosure (they were together at the time of purchase so I bought 2)

and trust me... they bask.. on the left side of the hide i have a smaller hide that i used for corns, i put it in there to aid in the shedding of the smaller one... which didnt have any issues it came off fine... the bigger one came to me shedding or in the process of shedding.... but i havent taken it out cause they tend to lay their heads on the smaller hide right under a heat source... if u ask me thats basking

they hissed alot in the begining... the move here was very stressful, the previous owner had them in the tank during transport, the tank is heavy, and i am a wimp.. i havent heard a hiss in about 4 days

the substrate is covering the glass... about 1.5 inches almost 2.. and its like shredded papery fabric... and it holds moisture pretty well with low mold chance

I am thinking about a misting system, not sure yet

not that I don't appreciate the feedback

[BuckeyeBalls]

they take advantage of every inch of this 55gal

A obvious sign of stress. You obviously dont know much about ball pythons or you would know they hide not roam around and explore their tank. Unless their in need of food

they have been living together since they were hatchlings.

This means absouly nothing

I wont be separating them... if the conditions are correct, they do not show any signs of aggression towards each other, and they are not opposite sex (i am having them sexed after the move... I was told they were 2 females but i need to be reassured)... there is no need for me to disrupt them and separate them... i could see if they were unfamiliar with each other but they arent.

When one snake gets sick and it gets the oter one sick and you have 2x the vet bills or 2 dead snakes u will soon see why you do not house 2 snakes together. Oh and also when they go off feed and u sit here and wonder why they dont eat another obvious indicator. But hey ur a risk taker lets hope your lucky

there are 2- 7ft boas housed together at a local store here

So your implying that what you see at a pet store is right? ahah thats funny. they dont know crap tbh

I have successfully had 2 baby corns in the same 20gal enclosure (they were together at the time of purchase so I bought 2)

As i said before its a risk you take. When something does go wrong it will be twice as bad.

[Kaorte]

Well, you basically just told everyone who gave you great advice that you are not going to listen to it.

So which is it? Do you want help or not?

I personally think that care fresh is an awful substrate for ball pythons. it is VERY dusty and can lead to a respiratory infection. The "hissing and yawning" you see randomly might actually be a sign on a respiratory infection.


A 55g is not an appropriate enclosure for these snakes. A 55g is for fish, not reptiles. ball pythons are terrestrial snakes and do not need a 2-3 foot tall enclosure. It is just more air that you need to heat and cool. A 55g is unnecessary.

Your ball pythons will thank you if you separate them. They are not social animals and there is no benefit to keeping them together other than the assumption that you can "save a buck or two".

Ball pythons do NOT bask like lizards. They are nocturnal and should not be out at all during the day. Roaming during the day or laying out during the day is a sign of stress.

Please read over our care sheet. It has a lot of great info: http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/...warticle&id=59

Now what is it that you would like help with?

[SashimiNSake]

thanks!
nothing like a good verbal raping in the afternoon

[Tochigi_R]

The information given to you isn't really contradicting, but just different options you could choose from. Pick one, ignore one, ignore them all, do one after the other. It's your choice.

As far as those two snakes being in the same tank, even if they are "familiar" with each other, they are animals that are driven by instinct and will never truly thrive if they are kept together. Ball pythons are solitary animals, and they will constantly try to dominate and compete with each other over hides, food, etc. They don't display like other reptiles do, so a lot of people never pick up on it, but it's there and it will continue to have a negative (even if only a little) effect on the both of them. If you ever see them coiling together, that's a bad sign too. They aren't getting along, that's one snake trying to dominate the other for space.

Despite this, there are people who have kept ball pythons together for a very long time and have had no problems, but that doesn't mean that there couldn't have been some sort of incident at any time, that being one snake trying to eat the other (though it is very rare it happens), one getting ill out of stress of constantly competing with the other, or one gets ill and soon after the other one does because they live together. It's just not reccomended. And as for that pet store with the boas, I'm not suprised. I've yet to walk into any type of pet store that houses animals - be them reptiles, birds, or mammals - and not be dissapointed by the amount of ignorance they show for the care of their animals.

If you decide to separate them, there are special hides designed for differently shaped tanks. You just have to shop around for them online. And you can make a water bowl out of just about anything that holds water, be it an old butter dish or a dog food bowl. That goes for hides, too. My mojave's favorite hide is a cardboard box from those 12 packs of ramen noodles. Use paper towels instead of newsprint, or use aspen or just whatever's easiest for you as long as it's okay for your snakes. You could even get wood and make a divider out of the tank they're already in to separate them. Just make sure it's a tight anough fit that they can't push it out of place or anything. Get a screen top that hinges in the center so you can access both sides without taking off the whole screen.

There are plently of ways to go about making your snakes happy. Best of luck with your animals.