Male Spider Mate

[2kdime]

Cajun-

Hers a good couple pages written up by NERD that is pretty easy to understand.

Read the first page, then continue on to learning more about dominant and co-dominant stuff and so on and so forth

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html

[-C@jun-]

Cajun-

Hers a good couple pages written up by NERD that is pretty easy to understand.

Read the first page, then continue on to learning more about dominant and co-dominant stuff and so on and so forth

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/genetics_intro.html

Thanks 2kdime I feel like a idiot. A lot better article. Easier for a infant! LOL

[dr del]

Hi,

I am not a fan of hybrids so I cant comment on the woma

I'm pretty sure he meant the woma ball python morph rather than a woma python.

There is absolutely no reason, what so ever to interbreed(line-breed). Yes people do it. It is understandable when you are trying to prove out a wild caught morph or a dinker, but there is no reason beyond that. Some people do it because they are in a hurry and or don't want to spend the money on visuals or the proper amount of breeders. No reason what so ever period on a co-dom or dom snake to do it.

I respectfully disagree.

When you are dealing with co-dom/ dom/ recessive three gene combo's the chances of you finding an unrelated one to buy is very low. And zero if you happen to be the first person trying to make the combo.

I don't feel it is realistically within everyones means to produce multiple combo's like that given the investment in individual animals it would require.

I'm all for adding fresh blood whenever possible but I also can see situations where the chances of it happening are low for the financial or space reasons you mention.

And as long as it is not done generation after generation I don't think there is a massive risk to it either.

But hey I've been wrong before.


dr del

[-C@jun-]

Hi,



I'm pretty sure he meant the woma ball python morph rather than a woma python.



I respectfully disagree.

When you are dealing with co-dom/ dom/ recessive three gene combo's the chances of you finding an unrelated one to buy is very low. And zero if you happen to be the first person trying to make the combo.

I don't feel it is realistically within everyones means to produce multiple combo's like that given the investment in individual animals it would require.

I'm all for adding fresh blood whenever possible but I also can see situations where the chances of it happening are low for the financial or space reasons you mention.

And as long as it is not done generation after generation I don't think there is a massive risk to it either.

But hey I've been wrong before.


dr del

Thanks for your input here del. I figured there must have been interbreeding going on. I kept thinking about it last night:"Well how are these breeders getting all these combos etc." It would be expensive unless they trade but that just refreshes the blood line somewhat with his next.

[TessadasExotics]

And as long as it is not done generation after generation I don't think there is a massive risk to it either. dr del

The only problem, and I think it's one that most people don't think about, is this;
lets say I line breed my co-dom/ dom/ recessive male snake back to his mother, (because I don’t want to purchase/care for a few more snakes to do it without line breeding) I now have inbred offspring. Now I sell these offspring to someone else. This person now has the same dilemma. Do I line breed or do I take the time/effort/money to get what I want? Now they too line breed this already inbred snake. It goes on and on down the line. Generation after generation.
So you see you may not want to line breed generation after generation, but you are setting it up for others to do it.

One of our goals is to produce Dreamsicles. We are getting the snakes to do it without line breeding. Yes it will take longer and will cost more in the long run, but we are going to produce (in our own opinion) healthier more genetically sound animals than some others may.

We choose not to line breed. Now If we ever end up with a one of a kind snake that we want to prove out. Then of course we may have to line breed. This is in our opinions the only time it should be acceptible to do so.

[Boanerges]

Since you like mojo's what about a lesser or butter female to pair with your male spider? You could also get a pinstripe female and try to make spinners

[-C@jun-]

Since you like mojo's what about a lesser or butter female to pair with your male spider? You could also get a pinstripe female and try to make spinners

Yeah could. The wife doesn't like the spinners.

[Boanerges]

Yeah could. The wife doesn't like the spinners.

The Pinstripe is definitely out then - lol

[cinderbird]

The only problem, and I think it's one that most people don't think about, is this;
lets say I line breed my co-dom/ dom/ recessive male snake back to his mother, (because I don’t want to purchase/care for a few more snakes to do it without line breeding) I now have inbred offspring. Now I sell these offspring to someone else. This person now has the same dilemma. Do I line breed or do I take the time/effort/money to get what I want? Now they too line breed this already inbred snake. It goes on and on down the line. Generation after generation.
So you see you may not want to line breed generation after generation, but you are setting it up for others to do it.

One of our goals is to produce Dreamsicles. We are getting the snakes to do it without line breeding. Yes it will take longer and will cost more in the long run, but we are going to produce (in our own opinion) healthier more genetically sound animals than some others may.

We choose not to line breed. Now If we ever end up with a one of a kind snake that we want to prove out. Then of course we may have to line breed. This is in our opinions the only time it should be acceptible to do so.

i know there are 100 threads on this, but I'll say this again.

Reptiles are much simpler than mammals are. Line or inbreeding, even for multiple generations seems to have very little, if any ill effects (this does NOT count problems that morphs already have; kinking in caramels, one eyed albino boas, etc).

Corn snakes, I've read, have been inbred for about 11 generations (possibly 12 or 13 now since its been a few years since i read this article that for the life of me i can not find again im TRULY sorry :/ ).

I;ve taken genetics classes and read up on this as it pertains to humans. In and line breeding increase the possibility of something "bad" being passed on as well as something "good". Genetic bottle necks are one of the ways new species come about (think of island animal populations). Terrestrial animals can't just go over to the mainland to get some new blood into the mix. Birds have it differently, but even the galapagos finches had to stay there long enough and breed in order to develop all the different types.

If inbreeding through multiple generations is a problem for you, don't sell a customer a 1.1 pair of something they intend to breed together that are related. (any hets or codoms). Except.. some animals (like the spider) only originated from a single WC animal, they're all related somehow because they carry the same gene, However, being a domimant, no one really bothers to breed spiders together. They're probably one of the most outcrossed bp morphs there are.

Other issues you run into are making sure your genes are compatible, with ghosts especially. There are 4 or 5 different types, 2/3 of which wont work with another, multiple lines of axanthic, etc.

I do plan on doing some limited inbreeding in my stock when i start breeding. One of the species I keep isn't very common, especially as a captive bred animal. Do i inbreed or work with wild caught stock, do i do both? who knows.

I have the upmost respect for the way you plan on doing your dreams--dont get me wrong. It seems lsike a great way to get some amazing outcrossed morphs.

Line breeding is the way genetics are refined, look at almost any type of animal bred for something (i wouldn't include domestic dogs in this, as that is an ENTIRELY different thing and i've got my own hangups on that) but cats, birds, fish, rodents, etc. Use the traits you like, get rid of the ones you don't. If you happen to find an amazing animal with the same traits unrealated to your current stock, holy jesus jump on that! I'm just saying we aren't all that lucky.

(look at crested geckos for some amazing line bred traits).

Hopefully that wasn't too long and off topic.

To the OP, honey bees are a great project. Take a look at the axanthic killer bee on NERD's page too. super sweet.