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  1. #11
    BPnet Senior Member WingedWolfPsion's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    I believe that if you do not feel an animal's value is high enough to warrant veterinary treatment, then you should humanely euthanize it. Leaving it untreated is not an ethical option, and ethics ARE a part of running a good business.

    Oh, and of course, it's ILLEGAL to fail to provide veterinary care for a sick or injured animal. Engaging in illegal activities, particularly animal neglect and cruelty, is a very bad business practice.

    The value of the animal is not really the issue--when your business involves animals, you have to provide them with medical care if they need it. It doesn't matter if it's a $25,000 morph, or a $25 normal hatchling. Euthanizing the animal is a legal option, but leaving it alive without treatment is not.

    So yes--it is simply part of the cost of doing business.
    --Donna Fernstrom
    16.29 BPs in collection, 16.11 BP hatchlings
    Eclipse Exotics
    http://www.eclipseexotics.com/
    Author Website
    http://donnafernstrom.com
    Follow my Twitters: WingedWolfPsion, EclipseMeta, and EclipseExotics

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    jzoot3d (04-28-2010)

  3. #12
    Ball Python Aficionado Adam Chandler's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    And then there is the other end of the spectrum; the small breeder with a handful of animals in one of the rooms in his house. Limited time, money & resources force him to make do with what works; random aquariums, mix-and-match water bowls, space heaters and homemade racks. While the setup is otherwise functional it stands in stark contrast to the relatively organized structure and symmetry enjoyed by the bigger breeders. Limited funds force the small breeder to do without a lot of things he would like to have, including more high-end designer morphs.
    Colin I feel like you've seen my snake room in my apartment when I read this.
    Very good post, made me really think about my operation.
    "We are artists using locus and alleles as our paint; the ball python as our canvas" - Colin Weaver


    Check out my Photoblog!

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    Jason Bowden (04-28-2010)

  5. #13
    BPnet Veteran FIREball's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    Great article Colin, the numbers may work out better if the price of the recessive morph didn't drop so fast. I could understand a co-dom but I think the recessive should hold its value a little longer.

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    ColinWeaver (04-29-2010)

  7. #14
    BPnet Veteran ColinWeaver's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREball View Post
    Great article Colin, the numbers may work out better if the price of the recessive morph didn't drop so fast. I could understand a co-dom but I think the recessive should hold its value a little longer.
    Your point is a good one. I gave that some thought, too. In many ways the price drops of the dominant/co-dominant morphs has been easier to predict. No two morphs enter the market at same value and they don't drop on a defined scale so my example was only meant to be general in nature.
    Colin Weaver
    East Coast Reptile Breeders
    http://www.ballpythonbreeder.com/
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  8. #15
    BPnet Veteran ColinWeaver's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    Quote Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion View Post
    An added bit of advice to make those 3-5 years go by more smoothly--you initial investment should NOT be hatchlings, it should consist of a mixture of recessive hatchlings, adult females, and male co-dom morphs. This will give you offspring in your first or second year of operation, and the money from those animals will enable you to pay for your operational costs without putting in more money from outside. At least, this has worked for me. After my initial investment, my breeding business has been self-sustaining. I have not made back my initial investment (in profit that isn't reinvested), and do not expect to do so for about 2 to 3 more years, but I don't have to put in anything from outside to maintain it and keep it growing.
    I agree that buying a few nice normal females (or pastels) and a few single-gene males is an inexpensive way to get some production in the first few years. Adult single gene males are readily available and very affordable. Because they are so common it is also perfectly plausible that you can find quality animals (rather than poor breeders that are being sold off). This wasn't really the case a few years ago when males pastels (or similar) were still pretty pricey. Back then they were the animals you were investing in, not something to fill the time. The nature of the business has changed enough that this is a viable alternative to sitting around for 3 years spending money. You'll have to figure out the extra caging costs, extra food, cost of acquiring the adult (or sub-adult) animals to really see how it will profit. I haven't checked the numbers but I'm nervous that purchasing professional caging will wipe out most of the money you make.

    Of equal importance is the ability to get some practice with egg incubation. Many breeders make incubation mistakes early on and you'll be able to mentally endure it better if the eggs you just lost aren't worth $1,000 each.
    Colin Weaver
    East Coast Reptile Breeders
    http://www.ballpythonbreeder.com/
    Email: colin@ballpythonbreeder.com
    Phone: 757-572-1987 (Call or Text)


  9. #16
    They call me Emilius LOL Emilio's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    Excellent article Colin!!! I agree with everything in it I hope everyone read's it in its entirety.
    Absolutely obsessed with ball pythons!


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  10. #17
    BPnet Veteran jkobylka's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    Excellent article. You articulated a few points that are rarely thought of by many...

    Justin
    J. Kobylka Reptiles Website
    Check out the 2013 JKR incubator!

    Warning:
    Snakes have been shown to cause death in laboratory rats.


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    KMS (04-28-2010)

  12. #18
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    Colin great tool for all of us to use...One thing that was not in there was the price of a incubator and the tubs abd substrate and a thermostate to control it.. Just another cost..It made me rethink most ofthe projects im in...
    Thanks again
    Kevin Stoltz

  13. #19
    BPnet Senior Member WingedWolfPsion's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    Quote Originally Posted by ColinWeaver View Post
    I haven't checked the numbers but I'm nervous that purchasing professional caging will wipe out most of the money you make.
    You have to be smart about that, too. I use Animal Plastics racks, because they're cheap, but sturdy, and they function well. I just picked up a 10 slot economy rack for $501, with heat and casters, shipped. Add a thermostat for $100, and the bins at $5 each, the total comes to about $650 to house 10 snakes. Now, if you call that 2 male co-doms and 8 females, Just ONE clutch from one of those girls has paid for the rack to house them all. Assuming your morphs sell for $200 each. The food costs for 10 snakes aren't that much, if you're buying in bulk or raising your own. Assume a worst-case scenario where only half of them lay eggs, and you still have 2 clutches to provide funds for expansion, veterinary care, or whatever else you need to pay for.

    The cost for feed and bedding for 2 full Freedom Breeder racks of rats and mice comes to $1296 annually (doesn't include the cost of the racks, which was part of my initial investment). That's enough to feed all the live eaters in my collection of 41, and all the hatchlings I produce. I also get 4 or 5 orders from Rodent Pro each year, coming out to about $120 each, so that's maybe $600 more, for a total of $1896 per year in feed costs for a breeding collection of 40 animals. Four clutches of mid-range co-dom X normal feeds everyone.

    So yeah--breeding co-doms while you raise up your higher investment hatchlings is totally worth it. 7 or 8 clutches of co-dom X normal eggs covers all of my business expenses, and everything on top of that is expansion. That's just one rack full of breeding animals that can potentially pay for the upkeep of 3 other racks full. With 4 clutches in the incubator right now, I'm halfway to paying for the whole thing for the year.
    What's more, because I bought mostly larger females, my average clutch size is 8, not 6. Even better.

    Now, don't get me wrong--I have crunched all the numbers. If I hadn't had a LARGE sum of money to make that initial investment, I couldn't be in this position. I don't think starting from 0 is actually a viable way to do this. You really have to have money (as well as patience) to make money with this. The initial purchases of equipment and animals come up to quite a sum of money, and I won't see it back for several more years. But, it CAN be self-sustaining while you're growing it up to do that.
    Last edited by WingedWolfPsion; 04-28-2010 at 08:59 PM.
    --Donna Fernstrom
    16.29 BPs in collection, 16.11 BP hatchlings
    Eclipse Exotics
    http://www.eclipseexotics.com/
    Author Website
    http://donnafernstrom.com
    Follow my Twitters: WingedWolfPsion, EclipseMeta, and EclipseExotics

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    ColinWeaver (04-29-2010)

  15. #20
    Registered User jzoot3d's Avatar
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    Re: On the Economic Viability of Ball Python Breeding

    I didnt even read the whole post but thank you so much for all the info!!

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