Help, egg still attached to female...

[Matt K]

My local (and well respected) reptile vet clinic back home in California told me that my +/- 1000 gram was too small to probe safely. This is why I want to get into the field, there is a shocking lack of practical knowledge out there. You can make your appointments in 6 years, satisfaction guaranteed, lol.

Cheers,
-Matt

[jsschrei]

Corey's post is superb.

Any updates???

[Bruce Whitehead]

Very late getting in on the thread, but as soon as I saw the pic, my first thought was to PM the OP to tell them to contact Corey.

Corey walked me through a really stressful situation with a baby BP I had that came out of the egg with her umbilicus wrapped around her so that she could not absorb her yolk.

The snake died due to my actions, NOT due to the advice I was given (I popped her out of the egg and she died from hardbelly).

He posts rarely, but posts with amazing clarity and intent.

Bruce

[muddoc]

Would you say it was wrong for the breeder here that stitched up the hatchling which had a hole in its belly and the heart was sticking out? That baby lived due to that breeders quick thinking and some great advice gotten right here.

Great post. Also, just a small bit of clarification about the above statemtn. I actually did bring the girl to the vet, and they refused to due the surgery. So, in that case, I had no other option (except to bring her to LSU Vet Hospital, and it was late on a Saturday).

[WingedWolfPsion]

Maybe so to some, but people like corey have been doing this long enough to know what needs to be done. Even an experienced exotics vet will likely have never seen anything like this before. Like he said, a vet would most likely go about it all wrong. Unless you have a great exotics vet you could take the snake and a printed copy of the instructions to, who would then do exactly that.

Another thing you need to consider is that it is very dangerous to give reptiles any anaesthesia. They often will not come out of it. This is how zoos take care of issue like this as well.

Would you say it was wrong for the breeder here that stitched up the hatchling which had a hole in its belly and the heart was sticking out? That baby lived due to that breeders quick thinking and some great advice gotten right here.

I'm saying that it's cruel to do surgery without anaesthesia or even painkillers. I'm not saying anything about right or wrong. I'm not saying there's even a clear choice here, but I definitely think that alternatives should be explored, given the amount of pain such a procedure must surely cause.
If you were the one having surgery, would you elect to go without anaesthesia because it's safer? Even if the anaesthesia posed a significant danger? Just a thought.

[sam_b]

Sorry for the delay in updating you all.

Unfortunately I didn't see Corey's response until this morning. The good news is I was told by my vet to leave her until later on in the week before bringing her in to surgically remove the eggs so nothing has been done.
On Sunday I removed the egg that was attached much in the way corey described but rather than cutting the membrane I used damp cotton buds to carefully peel it off the egg. I then pushed the ovaduct back inside the female. Nothing happened on Monday but this morning she had managed to pass one of the eggs which was right next to her vent. The other 2 eggs are quite a way up from her vent and so I have just tried massaging them down. Unfortunately I could only get them to move 1/2" or so no matter how long I kept going. So it looks like I'm going to have to drain the eggs. I haven't decided whether I'm going to go for it myself or take her to the vet to do. Too late now to do either today so will get it sorted tomorrow.

A big thank you to Corey for his advice!

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

I'm saying that it's cruel to do surgery without anaesthesia or even painkillers. I'm not saying anything about right or wrong. I'm not saying there's even a clear choice here, but I definitely think that alternatives should be explored, given the amount of pain such a procedure must surely cause.
If you were the one having surgery, would you elect to go without anaesthesia because it's safer? Even if the anaesthesia posed a significant danger? Just a thought.

I completely understand what you are saying. I think the "chioce" lies in the emergency status of the situation. Cutting the oviduct shouldnt cause pain as there shouldnt be nerve endings in that membrain. Using a needle to drain eggs may be annoying but that isnt surgery. Coreys post was meant to prevent surgery. I think the thing that would annoy the snake the most would simply be trying to push eggs out of it. I not sure you can even give a snake pain killers. I have no information on that.

If it were my snake or hatchling that had a ife threatening problem like that, I would definately need to assess how serious it was. It may not be the most painfree way of doing whatever needs to be done but if it saves my snakes life Id do it.

[mrs.twistedtails]

I'm saying that it's cruel to do surgery without anaesthesia or even painkillers. I'm not saying anything about right or wrong. I'm not saying there's even a clear choice here, but I definitely think that alternatives should be explored, given the amount of pain such a procedure must surely cause.
If you were the one having surgery, would you elect to go without anaesthesia because it's safer? Even if the anaesthesia posed a significant danger? Just a thought.

I agree. When a women gives birth, she has the option to use a numbing agent, and a lot of the times people choose to take the agent in the spine,(if there was something wrong with this perticular agent they wouldn't offer it) nothing going to affect the already alleged prolapsed egg, right? I chose to have it myself, it was a more calming thing to deal with. And these snakes of ours can't use words to describe the pain there in, (plus you never know this snake can go crazy and out of control for someone whos never had to do this paticular procedure)so I suggest takin it to the vet with this post printed out, that way the "experienced" vet can prescribe a numbing agent to help the animal. Like wolf said if you were the one having this awful, painful, surgery would you choose the anastetic or not? anything to subdue the pain would be the route I took! GOOD LUCK TO THE OP!!!!!

[mrs.twistedtails]

Sorry for the delay in updating you all.

Unfortunately I didn't see Corey's response until this morning. The good news is I was told by my vet to leave her until later on in the week before bringing her in to surgically remove the eggs so nothing has been done.
On Sunday I removed the egg that was attached much in the way corey described but rather than cutting the membrane I used damp cotton buds to carefully peel it off the egg. I then pushed the ovaduct back inside the female. Nothing happened on Monday but this morning she had managed to pass one of the eggs which was right next to her vent. The other 2 eggs are quite a way up from her vent and so I have just tried massaging them down. Unfortunately I could only get them to move 1/2" or so no matter how long I kept going. So it looks like I'm going to have to drain the eggs. I haven't decided whether I'm going to go for it myself or take her to the vet to do. Too late now to do either today so will get it sorted tomorrow.

A big thank you to Corey for his advice!

well you hear stories about laying mothers who pass one egg or 2 and days or weeks later they pass the rest. For example, one of my females laid one egg and 2 nights later woke up in the morning and saw the rest of her 7 egg clutch. So I think you should give it a day or 2 and see if she passes the rest on her own. But then again due to her awful experience maybe draining would be the best alternative. Best of luck!

[musicalKeyes]

This is interesting. For venomous snakes specifically, but the whole site is very interesting.
http://www.snakegetters.com/demo/vet/anesthesia.html


In any case, good luck with your girl