Snake regulation in America.

[David802]

so after Irately complaining to a friend of mine this morning about a few topics that were created on this forum yesterday and how I feel about what was said and done. He (being from Australia) pointed out how all of my problems and irritations could be solved if america adopted a similar idea to what they do in Australia. I thought it was very interesting and can see how it would solve a lot of problems (not all mind you) and sooth a lot of the arguments people have about snakes in general, while it does seem excesive, I am curious to know what this community thinks about it.

Also, it does seem to me that what they have done could be a nice compromise between what the "ban all boa/python" people want done. And those of us that think that snakes are safe and that re-education of people would do a lot towards helping people better understand snakes as pets/hobbie.

As to what they actually do this seems to be the basic jist of it if anybody lives in australia or is familour with these laws and can better explain or clearify anything I missed, they are welcome to do so, I've just started reading up on this so my knowledge is anything but complete.

There is a licensing system for ownership of any reptile/anphibian and a large selection of birds. The first step in that license system is called a "Class 1" with the class one License you can own the following animals.

•eastern snake-necked turtle
•eastern water dragon
•eastern bearded dragon
•common bluetongue
•children's python
•carpet python.

This is not an all inclusive list. There are a large selection of animals that only require a class 1 license.

How ever, you must own a class 1 animal for 2 years before you are elligable to receive a class 2 license with the same kind of animal, this allows you to have a larger selection of animals.

After the class 2 there are 3 more classes that gradually (based on danger level I think) bring in the poisenious snake group, all the way up to a class 5 license where you can handle/care for/own any snake.

So far I've been unable to find out if ball pythons are class 1 or 2. The problem with this is that on the list of exceptable species as far as I could tell that list seems to be created with only native animals to Australia, I'm not sure what the rules are for transporting reptiles into Australia. How ever I do know that some animals (particularly ferrets) are extremely prohibited. There is a very lengthy quarantine period, as well as a hole list of shots required for even bringing animals like ferrets and dogs into the country. Also it is against the law for any pet store to sell any animal that requires any level of license. You must aquire these animals from a licensed breeder. Because of this I do wonder if it is even legal to bring in animals that are not native to australia. That would explain why I couldn't find Ball Pythons on the list.

It is how ever because of rules like these that Australia is one of only 2 country's (that I am aware of) that can make the claim of being "rabies free". Because the animals that cary rabies are so well controlled the disease has become nonexistant in there country. This is just an example of how strong control of certain animals has made them safer as well as better taken care of.

One thought that came up during are conversation is that if it were as difficult to get a large snake, such as a green python (I used green python because there adult size gets about as big as ball pythons, 4.5-6 feet. And I could not find ball python, royal python or the scientific name for balls on there animal list ) in america as it is in Australia, the snake owners that get them on a whim, or people that treat there snakes like cats/dogs and are unwilling to learn about proper care for them would be discouraged in getting these types of animals and move on.

A few problems I've come up with for this idea though are as followes.

1-Putting these kind of stipulations on the ownership of snakes is going to seriously hinder the number of people who want to one day own snakes. since there are a lot of people out there that don't think they know everything and are very willing to learn and do whats best for there animals, this hinderance does seem like an over exageration simply to keep a few bad eggs out of the community. It would also hinder the whole reptile re-education idea that would help so much. It seems to me that people that are sketchy about the whole idea of snakes are not going to be persuaded by the idea of having to own a small snake or lizard for 2 years before moving to the snake you really want.

2- This would put a big strain on breeders, again all of it just to keep a few bad eggs out of the community and insure that the animals are properly cared for, is it worth it? I don't know, and I'd be very interested to get a breeders view on that problem particularly.

3- This third problem is my biggest one. I don't know if owning a small snake for 2 years will make you more knowledgeable about your animals. It seems to me that the people that want to become knowledgable about there animals will do so whether they are required to own a certain kind of animal for a certain period of time or not. And that those that don't care and are just going to dump there animal in an unregulated cage are not going to learn anything unless they want to. This seems to fall under the age old adage, you can leed a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

I was going to do this as a pole but since I can't come up with a good way to make different choices about it I'll just leave it to people to put in opinions.

[Kaorte]

I think it is an interesting idea, but I think it wouldn't really work here in the good ole US of A. We are very gung ho about our rights to own whatever we want be it ball pythons or guns.

There already is licensing for larger constrictors in certain states (cough Florida). Which I think is a great idea. The fact of the matter is, even with the laws that state you must have a permit or license, people will still find a way around it and own these animals illegally. That is the main part of the problem. Irresponsible people.

And you (sadly) cannot ban irresponsible people.

[David802]

I think it is an interesting idea, but I think it wouldn't really work here in the good ole US of A. We are very gung ho about our rights to own whatever we want be it ball pythons or guns.

There already is licensing for larger constrictors in certain states (cough Florida). Which I think is a great idea. The fact of the matter is, even with the laws that state you must have a permit or license, people will still find a way around it and own these animals illegally. That is the main part of the problem. Irresponsible people.

And you (sadly) cannot ban irresponsible people.

Interesting, I didn't know about states like florida.... and your right I wish you could put a ban on irresponsible people.

I'd still be interested to know if breeders think there sales would be effected by something like this.... I guess I should also preface the whole thing above was a convo with a friend. some of the points were mine and some his, I tried to condense and summarize what was said, because the convo took place over 4 or 5 hours.

[Charlie And Lucy]

I think we should start a ban for irresponsible owners. If it weren't for them we wouldn't be fighting like crazy to prevent the snake ban. I mean, we love our snakes and treat them with love and respect. We know our limits and our boundaries and we aren't the type of people to get a big snake because it's cool looking and all of our friends will be like, "oh wow, you have a giant burmese python, your so much cooler in our eyes".

The people who do own those big snakes usually are responsible, and have the proper means to take care of them. But it's the few irresponsible ones who ruin it for everyone, with big or small snakes. It's not fair at all to single out every python or boa because people in Florida (not ALL, just some) can't properly take care of a snake.

Really, I think we should start an irresponsible owner ban. I'm sure between all of us we could figure out a way to do it.

[Seru1]

No, No government intervention on reptile owners or breeders ever. They need to keep there inept greedy mitts OUT!

I don't wanna have to get a license from some braindead bureaucrat. This is America not Australia.