spider x spider

[moravaguy]

so i hear if you put a spider on a spider they will all be so wobbly they wouldnt live.............what?

[dr del]

Hi,

Tricky question.

They might actually be seperate issues.

The amount of wobble seems to be completely random like the amount of white on pieds ( apart from the fact the wobble can change during the animals lifetime of course ). At first I'm sure there were spider to spider breedings to see if there was a super so if they all die then we should have known by now - we know the super woma doesn't make it for example.

The question of spider to spider and the homozygous spider being possibly fatal (or just not physically possible for some reason ) however is a different issue than the wobble.

Despite the rumours nobody has come forward with a homozygous spider - admitedly most people breeding spiders outcross on the assumption there is no superform so why bother.

But surely some people must try it out of curiosity.

I wish I had some becuase I really want to see what the percentages work out at from follicles ( which can only ever be hetrozygous spider ) to actually hatched eggs (which could in theory be homozygous ).

If you could get enough info on both you could try and see if the predicted 25% homozygous fail after fertilization or die soon after hatching.

That should leave two thirds of the remaining clutch as spiders and one third as normals.

If you had enough sets of info a pattern that noticeable different should show up.

It's the kind of thing the big breeders could pin down in one or at the most two seasons - but financially I'd imagine losing two seasons of making bumblebees or new spider crosses would be just too much.


dr del

[moravaguy]

so.... do you think it would be worth giving it a shot, consitering it dont get done? im just a small guy kicking around ideas on what i wanna get into, with the males i got. always into something new, thanks for your input on it.

[dr del]

Hi,

Well If I had a pair that I didn't need for any other projects and an ultrasound machine I'd certainly be tempted.

I know an ultrasound isn't needed to find big normal follicles but I saw some good shots of a scan that showed smaller, under-developed follicles that would have been harder to pick out.

I liked the explanation that if the ovulation happened before they got to the minimum viable size then they would be duds - since for the spider thing they would have to be discounted ( or counted seperately for completeness ) as they would obviously have failed for reasons other than the homozygous genetics.

That's what I love about this hobby - we have all these questions nobody really knows the answers to yet.


dr del

[EmberBall]

To me, there is no reason to do a Spider x Spider breeding. If there was a Super Spider, I think we would know it by now. Since there appears to be no super Spider, I would not breed a Spider to a Spider.

Can it be done and will the babies live? I have never done it, so not sure.

Dave

[WingedWolfPsion]

Spider X Spider has been tried MANY times, and people still do it occasionally, when trying to cross two bees to get something new.
No super-spiders have been proven, and many have attempted to prove them as well. This suggests that spider is homozygous lethal (and co-dominant, not dominant).

However, because of this, the remaining 75% of your clutch will consist of spiders and normals, and there won't be anything wrong with them. Wobble will also be typical of any spider, not enhanced.

It seems obvious that whatever genetic issue causes spiders to wobble could cause some serious developmental deformity in a homozygous one, killing it in the egg.

The sad fate of homozygous Womas, a mutation that has similarities in appearance, is probably enough to keep folks from pursuing this too vigorously.

[moravaguy]

yea no such thing as super spider, i was just wondering if they would live because dude said they wouldnt and i figured that wouldnt be right, why wouldnt they live?

[Freakie_frog]

yea no such thing as super spider, i was just wondering if they would live because dude said they wouldnt and i figured that wouldnt be right, why wouldnt they live?

No one knows whether they live or not. See here's how the rumor mill works I hear that the Super Spotnose was produced. A few months later I hear it died. Now I go around telling everyone the super spotnose died. People begin to speculate how it died. They look at the Pearl and go oh it must be a lethal gene. Over the years people start to pass this around still floats around today. Low and behold the super Spot did die but it got a box or something dropped on it.

Now fast forward..to spiders..super isn't produced by NERD in the first couple of breeding's so the label it "Dom" and move on..10 years later people have quit trying because "there is no super" or their afraid to cause they hear they don't live. Now say just say NERD hit bad odds all 4 years in a row and now people aren't doing Bee to Bee or spider to spider cause "Whats the point" right. Now lets say it isn't lethal, and there isn't a super but there is still a 1:4 chance that a spider to spider breeding would pass 2 copies of the gene to a baby. Now it might look just like a regular ole spider but guess what I produces nothing but spiders..

Just my two cents.

[moravaguy]

well i ended up getting more outta this then what i thought, lol, well i guess sometime im just gonna have to put the breeding together and see whats what.