Snakes/Reptiles and their Emotions The argument

[astral_dream_god]

Are you being sarcastic? Plants can't feel emotions.

No i was not sarcastic,it is proven that plants feel,plants listening to music for example grow faster and better.plants witch you speak nice 2 aswell develop better and faster,than those that recive curses bad words and negativtyi,it is scientificaly proven,you should google it,haven"t you heard of a bonzay tree?my snake loves me...

[MustBeSatan]

But how can you say that? They have the ability to get mad....they have the ability to get scared.....why not the ability to be happy? Why not the ability to feel other things? Do I think they feel like us....NO.....but either do dogs. Not like we do! From a scientific avenue.... I think that we underestimate animals and reptiles all the time. We are learning new things about all sorts of species everyday and the capablities they have. Who are we to say they don't....I mean.....I have never experienced being a snake and the bottom line it has NOT been proven!!

Now with that being said....I am totally over the top with my snakes and I admitt it openly. But I see them with their favorite spots in the house that they know are there. Henry loves to go behind the bookcase...same bookcase everyday. Elizabeth always goes for the legos and rummages around in them. Sam...she loves the stairs and always goes to the stairs. So this ...tells me....that they have a memory of where things are....and what they like.

I dunno....Im just saying!! Again my disclaimer.....I overly love and adore everyone and everything in my house. Just me

The Fight or Flight system is present in the reptile brain, as it is in all animals. We may assign the name "mad" to a reptile exibiting aggressive behaviour, but he is not experiencing anger, he is just reacting to the situation using their simple, instinctive brain. That's the bottom line. It's not about underestimating the animals, it's about years of studying brain structure and activation patterns. I would say humans tend to anthropomorphize and overestimate animal brains, more than we underestimate them.

Also, memory and emotion are two totally different things. Memory/learning in snakes would be formed with a heavy reliance on conditioning; so if your snake that "likes" the bookcase initially found the bookcase and felt safe, it is likely to return to that same place in order to again feel safe.

I know you want to believe snakes can feel and reason, I wish so much that we were able to communicate with all our pets so we could ask them if they were happy in their homes, if they needed anything, etc. but that's really not the case. We may not know much about the human brain, but the reptile brain predates ours by about 200 millions years. It is considerably less complex, and contains only the parts of the brain necessary to provide basic life support and function.

As for plants liking music... Good grief... While we may not understand why music makes plants grow differently, or termites work at different speeds, etc. PLANTS DON'T HAVE EMOTIONS. They don't have any means of decoding auditory stimuli! They don't even have a central nervous system for petes sakes... Please don't tell me anyone thinks that music makes plants grow because they "like" it -_-

It is most likely that it has something to do with frequency and vibration; this explains both why music played for a little while is fine but if it is played for too long will kill the plants, and also while nice, quiet compliments are better than yelling, harsh sounds. The design flaw in the studies I have read on plants and music is that I've never seen a study where the control was just random noise with similar qualities to the music. In any case, plants don't feel. Really. Honestly. And your table doesn't mind if your plate is hot. And carrots don't cry when you take one of their friends and eat them.

Your XBOX, however, does have emotion, and if you leave it on for too long it gets very hot and angry, and can clearly convey this emotion by flashing red rings at you and then dying, costing you hundreds of dollars to replace it. Trust me.

[MustBeSatan]

Oh, and also, what the heck do bonsai trees have to do with music? Bonsai trees are created by wrapping wire around a baby tree to restrict its growth... They don't make them by playing Kung Fu Fighting over and over. But maybe I missed something there.

[j_h_smith]

I don't claim to be an expert on this subject (or many other subjects for that matter), but I don't know how much we (as humans) understand other animals. I think OUR REALITY IS OUR PERCEPTION. We cannot undestand that which is beyond our perception. I know this is getting deep, so I'm sorry.

If you lived in the jungle and never saw an airplane, what would you perceive this thing to be? I don't know, because I know what an airplane is and can't understand their perception.

If you lived on the top of a mountain and you saw a fish for the first time, what would you think of the fish? I don't know, because I know what a fish is and can't understand their perception. And I'm just talking about another human. Now, we're talking about reptiles.

Do we conclude that reptiles perceive as we do? Do we believe that everything that makes you a person has to pertain to what makes a reptile a reptile?

Okay now it's really getting deep. But I don't know if we (meaning the human race) actually understand as much of the world as we think we do. We perceive things in the human sense, but do we really know what's going on. Because we are at the top of what we believe to be the evolutionary charts, we pat ourselves on the back, telling ourselves how much we know and we are better off for it. But I think the animals have it much better than we do. How many of you can find north or south without the use of a compass? How many of us could survive without our manmade tools? Ever heard the word horse sense? They know where to step and stop short of that rattlesnake without seeing it. I can keep on going with examples, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

We know what we know and convienently try to surround everything with that knowledge.


Jim Smith

[kremmel]

To back up the flower argument, when plucked from the ground a flower releases distress signals out to all other plants. Plants are also said to recognize people and detect lies. (http://pureinsight.org/node/1496) A snake may be a cold-blooded animal, on that runs on instinct. However, I think it is a bit arrogant of humans to say that a snake cannot feel. Can you recall a time you were a snake? Do you remember how you felt? No, I didn't think so. I do not think that anyone can clearly mark that snake instinct ends before it reaches into the fields of emotional instinct. Emotional instinct, such as the defensive nature a female displays over her offspring. Snakes may not be able to love in our terms of the word. A snake will not share your bed, make you coffee, or buy you chocolates. A snake can, however, recognize someone they are more comfortable with and act accordingly. The expectations of a cold-blooded animals emotions are being drawn to high here. Of course a snake cannot love. However, I do believe that all animals (snakes included) have the ability to feel a smaller, more basic set of emotions. Like Jim said, there are a lot of things in the world we do not understand. When you assume, you make an ASS out of yoU and ME.

[Egapal]

I once stumbled upon a threw with a poll Does your snake love you?
Alot of the responses where it's imposable for a reptile to you love you,they lack the brain power to do so,So if your theroy is that snakes/reptiles are creatures of instinct and don't give two [flips] who handle or care for them because they can only feel pleasure fear pain,That being said my theory is a snake in particular doesn't care who cares for it who provides for it that if say a ball python was with me for 10 years that we would have no connection what so ever that that snake could be passed from person to person care and it would not know the difference,i find it insane to think that a snake does not come accustom to one person or crave attention,


Discuss

You are mixing two separate issues together. Your comment is kinda like saying humans can't see heat. I find that hard to believe since they clearly don't like being set on fire.

Lets say you have two people that you don't love that want to go for a ride in your new car. You only have room for one though. Do you choose the person who is wearing deodorant or the one who is not wearing deodorant. A snake could recognize (a talent that is unrelated to love) the person who has cared for it for years vs the new person. Its going to be calmer with its keeper than the new person. All of this is unrelated to the ability to love.

[RockyTop]

There is a difference between learning and conditioning.

You can argue all you want, but the fact is... a snake's brain does not have the complexity to feel emotion as we perceive them.

You can get as philosophical as you want. You can say we don't know what snakes feel because we aren't snakes. But emotions are tied to certain parts of the physical brain. It has been scientifically proven over and over. And snakes do not have that part of the brain. Snakes have an extremely primitive brain that is controlled by millions of years of instinctual reactions. It simply does not have the physicality to produce happy, sad, jealousy, anger, etc.

But, who am I to take away someone's wish that their snake reciprocated their feelings towards it. If it makes you feel better to think that a snake has emotions, go for it. If it makes you feel better to think that we don't understand a snakes brain, because it isn't a human brain...then that's fine (although the makeup of a snakes brain is found in the human brain and does control the same basic survival instincts. We just have a highly evolved brain that has grown to allow development of the areas that are able to process advanced complexities, such as emotion, problem solving, etc).

There is nothing wrong with personifying your snake. As long as you are taking proper care of your snake, whether you are motivated by hopes of appreciation or not, then it doesn't matter.

What matters is that you love your snake, not that it loves you.

[Nate]

Here's a quick video that I did to show that snakes do show emotions.

YouTube - Snakes DO show emotions

[Jay_Bunny]

[hoax]

This has been discussed a thousand times, you should have just dredged up one of the old horses and beat it around for a bit, the answer is and always will be THEY DON'T HAVE EYEBROWS!!!! So they can't show you how they feel.... It is sad really I would like to know when my snake is confused or scared or in the mood for some sweet sweet rat.

Mike