Enclosure setup ideas? Criticism welcomed.

[Tobias]

Hello all,

I just got my first normal ball and have some questions on enclosure setup. I bought her at Petco and they said they had her for about 8 months, so I assume that she's at least 9-10 months old at this point. I was able to weigh her on a digital food scale last night and she was 179g and 22". Is this small for her age? The store had been feeding her two fuzzies once a week. Does that seem like a small meal for this age? One of the books I read said that she should be eating hoppers or larger at 9 months.

Hope this image link works..



She is currently in a 30gal enclosure. There are digital probe thermometers on both the warm and cool sides. The warm side is 89.5-94.1° at the surface of the aspen bedding and the cool side is about 71.5-78° at the level of the bedding. I also have a digital thermometer and hygrometer about an inch off the bedding on the back wall that measures the ambient temp at 74.5 and the humidity at 71%. There's another dial therm/hygro, but I'm sure the digital is much more accurate. There is a hide in the cool side and warm side, a water bowl (I'm getting a more appropriate large one today), and a tree (sterilizing this in bleach solution then dishwasher). The sides and back are covered in a black plastic sheet made for fish tanks. Half of the top is covered with this also on the cool side, and I've taken clear packaging tape over the top of the warm side and left a hole over the mesh screen about 3"x3". This seems to achieve the appropriate temps and humidity levels. I have the largest Zoo-"something" heating pad under the enclosure on the warm side. I use a halogen "daylight" bulb and a night bulb on timers. The daylight is on for 14 hours and the night is on for 10 hours. Neither put off much heat.

Is a 30gal too large for a 179g ball? She's eating fine and appears to be healthy. 99% of her time is spent inside the hide on the warm side. Does this seem like normal behavior? I guess I anticipated more active thermoregulation by going back-and-forth, from cool to warm hides. Of course the 70's might be a little cool, or it could be stress related to the large enclosure.

I'm sure I've missed things, so any constructive criticism would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Toby

[angllady2]

While that is a pretty big enclosure for your BP, IF the snake seems comfortable there, doesn't act stressed, and is eating well, I don't see any reason to change unless you want to.

I will comment on a few things, first is her hot side temp probe. Because she can and will burrow down to the glass, you really want her hot side probe resting on the glass. At surface level is might be 92, but the glass could be as high as 105, and if she burrows down and sits on it too long she could get burned.

As far as feeding her, at 179 grams, she can easily handle an adult mouse or very small rat.

Yes, it is very normal for her to spend all her time in her hides, a hiding ball is a happy ball. I will comment you might want to consider changing the daylight bulb for a red one. Ball pythons don't really need the sunlight like lizards do, and I'm sure she's not crazy about that bright light shining on her, since ball's are nocturnal. My 8 only have ambient light from the ceiling light in their room, and I see them out both day and night. BUT if I turn on the bright floor light that sits next to their shelves, they don't come out until it goes off.

The positive thing is, you've given her two very tight secure hides, which she obviously likes, and that is probably why she can handle the larger enclosure well.

For now, just monitor her and watch for signs of stress. If she's hiding and eating well, she's happy.

Gale

[Kaorte]

Normally I would say that a 30g is too big for a ball python that small. But if she is eating and hiding like a happy snake, I don't see a problem. I take it the cool side is the side without the lamp on it? I think I see a snake in the smaller hide. If that is the case, I would replace that larger hide with one identical to the smaller one. That way she doesn't have to sacrifice being at the right temperature for security (which they will pick first).

She could definitely eat an adult mouse and I would switch her to one adult mouse every 5 days. 179 is as much as my 4 month old weighs.

Also, if you are not running your heat mat with a thermostat or rheostat, you will eventually burn your animal. Do yourself a favor and put the probe right on the glass where the UTH is (under the substrate) and see for yourself how hot they get.

[Tobias]

Thank you both for your replies. I did consider buying an identical hide and putting it in the cool side, but the store didn't have it when I went last time. I'm going to try again today. I'll also try to find a red bulb that doesn't put off any heat.

Does the thermostat run off of its own thermometer? Can I buy one that operates two different pads independently. I ask this because I want to buy a smaller pad for the cooler side and keep it around 80-82. It is low-to-mid 70's right now and I feel it may be too cool. I have only seen her outside her hide once since I got her, and always goes to the warm hide after I handle her. Low 80's might be better.

On the topic of handling, how much is too much? I'm slowly increasing the amount that I handle her, but it's still once per day, or once every other day. I haven't gone longer than 20minutes or so. The entire time she is moving around. I assume she's looking for a warm area to hide. Does this behavior seem consistent with a healthy snake? What handling practices do you use?

Thanks,

Toby

[Kaorte]

A thermostat has its own probe that you put on the heat source. You can buy one that regulates two different temperature but it is over $200 (the herpstat II). Another alternative would to get a reptitemp 500r thermostat for $25 and a light dimmer for $11.

Plug the hot side UTH directly into the thermostat. Plug the cool side UTH into the dimmer and plug the dimmer into the thermostat. Place the thermostat probe directly on the hot side UTH. Make sure you have a probed thermometer to measure the temp of each heat pad. Dial the thermostat in until the hot side reaches 90-92*. Adjust the rheostat until the cool side measures between 80-85*.

I think 20 minutes a day is fine. I know its hard to resist, especially when you only have one snake. They should be pretty relaxed when you are handling them. Relatively slow movements and just checking things out. A younger snake will move around a lot more.

[Vypyrz]

The red light will still give off heat. But supposedly the red light doesn't disturb them at night like a white light will. Another option would be using a Ceramic Heat Emitter, if it is needed.

The only thermostat that I know of that will control 2 heat pads independently is the Herpstat II by Spyder Robotics. Another cheaper option would be to get something like a Johnson or Ranco and use it to set and control the warm side UTH. Then plug a rheostat into the thermostat power strip and use it to control the cool side UTH. Or you could just get 2 thermostats. There are a few ways you can do it depending on how much you want to invest in your set-up...

[RockyTop]

A thermostat has its own probe that you put on the heat source. You can buy one that regulates two different temperature but it is over $200 (the herpstat II). Another alternative would to get a reptitemp 500r thermostat for $25 and a light dimmer for $11.

Plug the hot side UTH directly into the thermostat. Plug the cool side UTH into the dimmer and plug the dimmer into the thermostat. Place the thermostat probe directly on the hot side UTH. Make sure you have a probed thermometer to measure the temp of each heat pad. Dial the thermostat in until the hot side reaches 90-92*. Adjust the rheostat until the cool side measures between 80-85*.

I think 20 minutes a day is fine. I know its hard to resist, especially when you only have one snake. They should be pretty relaxed when you are handling them. Relatively slow movements and just checking things out. A younger snake will move around a lot more.

This is what I do, based on kaorte's recommendation as well. I have 2 UTH's, one for warm side, one for cool side. Just make you plug a dimmer into the cool side one, adjust it for the temp you want, then plug it into the thermostat.

Here is what I did:

1) Setup warm UTH. Place the thermostat probe outside the enclosure, taped to the UTH. Remember, you have a thermometer probe under the substrate to measure the highest possible temp your snake would be exposed to.
2) Adjust thermostat to maintain warmside UTH at ~92F. Once this has been established, I let it run a full 24 hours to ensure it does not spike with cooling of the house in the evenings.
3) Once you setup coolside UTH with the dimmer to maintain the cool side temp, plug it into the thermostat as well. Just a note, when the warm UTH is being shut off to maintain the temp, it will also shut off the cool side UTH (with the reptitemp 500r anyway, which is what I use.) So I ended up setting my cool side UTH/dimmer for ~84, so now when it is shut off/on with the thermostat, it maintains ~80. So if the thermostat does fail, your snake won't cook because the dimmer will keep your cool side UTH at a comfortable temp, and the snake will obviously be uncomfortable on the hot side UTH.

It seems confusing at first, I know I was so confused by thermostat/thermometer setup and placement. But don't worry- once you have the equipment, it becomes very clear.

[Tobias]

Thanks for the help guys.

I still do not understand one thing. I am setting the thermostat so that the maximum temperature achieved does not go above 92° for the warm or 84° for the cool side. Correct? This temperature is given by probes that sit directly on the bottom of the tank --and in my case it's glass. I have noticed that with about an inch of substrate there is a 4-10° difference in temperature from the bottom of the tank to the surface of the substrate. Doesn't this mean that the temperatures at the surface of the substrate, where the snake lays, is too cool. Should I use less substrate? How do you achieve the appropriate temp at the surface of the substrate, without raising the thermostat temp and risking a burn?

Sorry for these novice questions. I'm sure they're spelled-out in a sticky somewhere; I just haven't been able to come across them.

[Kaorte]

You are correct about the temp difference. Ball pythons like to move substrate around though. If they need to get warmer, they will move the substrate away and sit on the glass. You just want to make sure that if and when they do this, the glass isn't hot enough to give them a burn.

You could also cut down the substrate to about 1/2" and the temps will be more even from the bottom to the top. You might notice that when you remove the substrate, the temps on the glass might also go up so adjust your thermostat accordingly.

[zantedeschia]

If that's the sort of hide that has a door on the other side, I've found my snakes don't like those very much. They prefer the hides that have one door like the exo-terra caves.