so im wondering?

[mason]

LMAO!!

SALARY?!?!?!


IT takes years to even begin to break even, understand this:

more than half of the people who you THINK make a living from snakes...DON'T

Many of the breeder that people know of or think of as "professional" either currently have, or have had in the past, a very successful 'day job'. I know of big name snake breeders who own contruction companies, landscape gardening firms, IT contractors and consultants (like me) etc etc etc. A lot of breeders EARNT their money elsewhere then put it into reptiles. They have/had another job that pays the bills (mortgage, cars, food AND snake stuff). At some point they 'invest' a large amount of money in reptiles. This reptile collection then, eventually, in theory, pays for itself then begins to make money. At first it will/should pay for it's own upkeep then it provides the dollar bills to be splashed on other, newer morphs to keep the collection "upto date". There are also a small percentage of breeders either spending mummy and daddys money or spending a well off spouses money. Basically what i'm saying is just because you see individuals spending hundreds of thousands on ball morphs it doesn't mean reptiles alone generated that income in the first place and there is nothing to say that the breeders actual bottom line for the business is a negative number (ie yes they made $20 000 this year selling reptiles, but that just means their overall balance stands 20 000 closer to 'zero'

Breeding snakes is an expensive hobby that required a huge cash injection from these individuals at some point. Basically a lot of these people have done very well in their chosen industry in the past or are contuning to do well in a non reptile related trade. The majority of snake breeders never make the jump up to actually making their collection run itself AND make them a living. You'll find for the most part that living is already being made elsewhere by other means OR something done in the past (hard work, the sale of a company etc etc) means they are sat on a pretty sum anddpon't have to sorry about profitability of their snakes too much, as long as morph sales pay for their heating and food anything else is a bonus.

There are not as many people as you would think making a good living off ball pythons alone, and i'd certainly think it may be a bit late to become one now, that bus left in about 1999 i'm afraid, and we weren't on itl


I personally would NEVER want to rely on my reptiles for a living, the trade is fickle, people can be a pain to deal with, animals can takes months to sell. It takes 20 'let downs' to get to one genuine buyer. This means the amount of time it costs you per dollar per sale can be crazy.

What my reptile collection can do though is provide a nice occasional/seasonal boost to my regular income and for the best part pay for the rats and electricity to heat them etc. It also produces the money for new 'investment' in itself to add new moprhs from time to time. Would I like to risk my mortgage and car, my general life on ONLY breeding reptiles?

Not unless I had a few million in the bank AND a few hundred thousand. No.

Going back to apoint made by an earlier poster taking myself personally.

Have I 'made money' sellling reptiles? Yes I have.

IS this money more or less than than the amount I've spent on reptiles over the years?

Nope, not yet it's not.

And i suspect the (honest) answer for many people from the smallest breeder right upto some of the biggest names in the industry is eactly the same as mine.

We do it for the love of them, for the passion we have for them and the enjoyment keeping reptiles brings. the other stuff is a bonus.


I think, if some rich kind person GAVE me a couple of hundred K to spend on reptiles in one hit I could make a return on that inside a couple of years knowing what I already know of snake breeding but for a novice to jump in and do that would not be so easy. It's also not so easy to groew your business organically,(ie start of small, grow and eventually make a living off it). The market moves too fast for this, snakes take time to grow and lose value every day they do so.You still at some point would need to make that huge cash injection. It's a catch 22, the reptiles can't earn you that much until you spent that much on them. Yes there are people making an amazing living at this, but most of them have had YEARS head start on us and most of them made their money elsewhere.


Please, please don't get me wrong, it's possible and it is an amazing hobby and it is possible to earn a living...but realise that theres often more going off behind the scenes than you know

[pavlovk1025]

Follow your dreams, but you can go ahead and assume that your salary is not going to be a salary at all. To make money you have to spend money, and unless you have about 50k to spend on a pair of TriStripes (20k a piece), Bananas ( 10k I think?), and a couple 2 or 3 gene co dom males and 2 or 3 co dom female breeders, dont expect to make a good return.

My goal, same as other people's goals, is to have a self sustaining hobby. To ensure that my hobby can sustain itself, I bought in to two higher end projects that I want to work with and that can ptoentially sell for a decent price to help self sustain. Currently, my expected projects from this year have dropped from 6 clutches to a very realistic 3, with one being incubated right now. Not breaking even this year, barely self sustaining, but the lavender and queenbee project will hopefully recoup some costs over time.

Choose what you like, and go for quality over quantity. Look and think of projects that a lot of people aren't working on. Almost everyone shoots for bees, pastel x spider is a cheap starter project. But a fire bee, lesser bee, butter bee, those aren't mass produced yet. Spend more money in the beginning and youll see a higher return in the end.

PS. Visual recessives... Co doms are easy, recessives take time. Invest in a couple visual recessive females that are of or close to breeding size and you stand a chance.

[Auletto]

If I knew this hobby would set me back $7,000 in only 3 years I don't think I ever would have gotten back into snake. I'm a long time Quicken user and keep track of every dime I spend on the hobby. At first you don't realize how much your really spendings, $500 here, $250 there and before you know it your in pretty deep, lol.

At the same time I really love working with reptiles and having this collection is pretty much a joy to own. So, in my opinion YES it is expensive, but at the same time very rewarding. Like the rest of us I'm planning on breaking evening one day, but if I don't it's not the end of the world. We'll see in a few more years. If I don't break even at least I'll have some killer combos in my collection and have great memories from this experience.

[jacob985]

now i never said it would only be BP i plan on multiple types of snakes and reptiles.

[Matt K]

I think all previous advice still applies to someone breeding multiple kinds of reptiles. Breeding other reptiles just means you need to diversify in husbandry as well, which means different rooms for different reptiles, different enclosures, heating requirements, diet requirements, etcetera. You will not only need to breed rats for example, but also mice, crickets, meal worms, roaches, and the likes. I like your tenacity though. Don't give up on the dream if you feel like you have what it takes, but please make sure the animals don't suffer from any over-ambition on your part. I think people who rush into this business end up cutting corners to make more profit--the Big Daddy's Wholesalers out there. Ask Brian from BHB, he'll tell you to watch out, often times trying making this hobby into a business kills the joy you had for it in the first place. It's a LOT of stress and a LOT of work, 24 hour 365 work. You'll have to deal with crappy customers, liars, cheats, as well as your own issues that come along with animal care. I don't know anything about you though, so this is obviously just a blanket statement. I don't mean to comment on your abilities physically, mentally, or monetarily to start what could grow into a profitable business. As others have stated though, make sure you know you're more than likely going to need a very large upstart cash injection, and perhaps a few connections to some good importers to really get started. The best way to make money in this business is to gamble an investment on a really stunning animal that was collected through an importer, and start on the ground level of a morph. If they're in low supply, the demand is going to be greater, and you can charge a lot more for people wanting to get in on the ground level. Anywho, good luck in whatever you decide to do. Just remember, if it kills the joy for you, it's not worth it, and if you think your animals may suffer if you fail and can't make ends meet, it's even more so not worth it. I wish you all the best though, hope it works out for you.

Cheers,
-Matt

[Kyle@theHeathertoft]

I'd like to someday break even. THAT'S my goal.

I'd love to make money from snakes but I'll consider it a good deal if I break even someday, LOL. I'm not about to quit my day job!

[jacob985]

yea i dont plan pn not having a day job

[mason]

now i never said it would only be BP i plan on multiple types of snakes and reptiles.

You mean the other repitles that sell for literally pence on the wholesale market?

We're in the UK, not the states, but it's even worse over where you are. Imagine how many adult corn snakes, boas, rainbow boas, beardies, leos (ETC ETC ETC) you'll have to produce to make money when the average baby sells at $5-$50

This year we'll produce hundreds of corns (fingers crossed etc). Arond 20-30% of those we will be able to sell at 'full price' to other breeders (ie not shop retial but above wholesale. The remianing babies go out to pet shops etc at a fraction of the price. This all goes to heat and feed the collection.


Then don't forget that theres nothing to say all of our royal pairings this year (or indeed any!) will take, and then if they do 3 out of every four eggs could be a normal male or a het male or a poss het make again worth pence.

Then theres the time, space, effort and money it takes to house and raise all these hatchlings.

People took you to mean only ball pythons mainly because this is a ball forum but also because they are amongst the only reptiles that that sell for a higher price (and you spoke of making a living at it).Sorryfor the assumption.


What other species are you planning on breeding? you'll have to consider their different husbandry, food and space requirements etc aswell as the eventual wholesale and private sale prices. Best of luck to you, but i'd look into the financial realities of it a bit more.

[j_h_smith]

now i never said it would only be BP i plan on multiple types of snakes and reptiles.

Most of us have given it a try once or twice. No reason you can't learn from the joy of breeding reptiles only to find once you pay for the electric bill and food for the critters, you realize that it's not paying me anything to do all this. At that time, you will have to decide on doing it for money or for the love of the animals.

Welcome aboard!
Jim Smith

[andyspythons]

if you want it go for it my ball pythons make me more then i put out now that said it is not my job but it will be one day it is just for fun now