Sumatran Red problem

[CallmeUmaster]

Ive had 2 sumatran red bloods for about 2 - 2 1/2 years now. a male and a female, the male was raised in a little box just for breeding purposes and was NEVER socialized atall, so he is quite mean and pissy. he also has a musking problem. ( i think musking is the right word? he pees and slings his poop everywhere if you even start to take him out ) He also likes to try and strike me through the glass when i walk by.
He does fine he usualy eats his meals and hes nice and healthy.
This is where it gets weird. I was told that the female and the male were about to same age give or take a few months. well the male has been growin like a weed and hes pretty big. They were babies when i got them and well the female has hardly grown. She used to take every meal but over a year she just kind of stopped and now she rarely eats. She refuses almost every meal. She is smaller than i think she should be. Her body weight and everything seems fine, shes not showing any bad signs and she acts completely normal but she is very short. the male is a GIANT compared to her. any opinions or advice? and yes ive checked my husbandry many times and it seems to be spot on. i dont know what the problem is.

[snakey68]

1st port of call would be a rep vet and get them probed or do it yourself if you can you would expect the larger of the two if the same age be the female so my suspicions would be raised as far as that is concerned.

You can always tame the aggressive one down a bit but will take more time if it has had no regular handling.

at 2 and half years they are approaching or very near to maturity so you would expect the female to have caught up and overtaken the male by now.

Yes definitely get them probed mate so there is no doubt.

[2kdime]

What are your temperatures and humidity like?

What are they being housed in?

What are you feeding them and how often?

Like Snakey said, have you ever had them probed to be sure of sex?

This time of year is breeding season, so it doesnt surprise me that either animals are off feed.

Males and females aren't cut and dry in size, In my experience my males are growing faster than the females. Though generally females are larger, males can certainly get quite large and females can stay rather small.

[CallmeUmaster]

male is in 3ft long 1 1/2 ft wide cage. and the female is in a 20 gallon long.
i maintain the humidity about 50%
there basking spot is between 88-90F. The ambient are temperature is about 78-80F.
i have taken them both the a good reptile vet, they were sexed and the vet said nothing was wrong.
i feed them an approperiatly sized rat every other weekend.
also is there anything i can do about the musking, so i can work on socializing the male more? cleaning poop and pee off of my walls, floor, ceiling, and furniture isnt very fun.

[snakey68]

male is in 3ft long 1 1/2 ft wide cage. and the female is in a 20 gallon long.
i maintain the humidity about 50%
there basking spot is between 88-90F. The ambient are temperature is about 78-80F.
i have taken them both the a good reptile vet, they were sexed and the vet said nothing was wrong.
i feed them an approperiatly sized rat every other weekend.
also is there anything i can do about the musking, so i can work on socializing the male more? cleaning poop and pee off of my walls, floor, ceiling, and furniture isnt very fun.

well if the vet has checked and probed and you know what you have for sure then fine. Could be the male is growing quicker but usually the females will catch up after the 2nd year.

You are going to need to work on the one with handling issues and the only thing you can do to get it used to handling is just that ...handle it regularly and dont put it down and away if it sprays you as this re-inforces that to get left alone it just needs to cover you in crap lol which is not a nice thing I am sure.

The musking spraying is generally a defensive response so its obvious that particular snake has had little to no handling from a hatchling, I am assuming of course the animal is captive bred ? This is a sign of a stressed snake so assuming for a moment all the snakes requirements are met like correct temps humidty etc then you really are focusing on calming the animal down.

You might want to try this or not but I have good results. Get a stick and a heavy glove tape the glove to the end of the short stick so it acts as an extension to your hand. Then you can use this to stroke the snake in its enclosure before you start taking it out and letting it redecorate you house with its insides.

I have used this method with particularly aggressive snakes, to date used it with a few snappy burms that used to strike the glass when you walked past a blood that sprayed and struck and a nervous royal python. I used the glove to spend ten to fifteen minutes every other day stroking the side of the body ( don't touch the head or neck ) after a couple of weeks I was able to get them out with out any spraying or biting.

You have to also get them out for handling but you might want to try that a couple of times a day for a few days before getting him out again.

I assume everything else is in order he is eating and shedding well ?

Do you know if he was a captive bred animal ?

Cant stress enough that Blood require patience and most importantly good enclosure set up.

If you can get the blood to stop spraying after a few days then it will be a case of perseverance and patience, if need be ( once stopped spraying) just wear gloves to get him out if you fear a bit but dont let his attitude dominate your plan of action.

You must handle them to tame them eventually one of mine a female was very very pissy and used to leap off my hands like a coiled spring and attack other people ..lol but now she is a big softie who is more tolerant than the big male I have.

[2kdime]

Here's some almost sure fixes to your problems besides what was said above.

Get the basking spot down to no higher than like 84 to 86. Too high or low of temperatures are a dead ringer for going off feed.

You might also get them out of aquariums and into some plastic tubs such as Iris or Sterilite brands. Aquariums are for fish and dont provide the security that Bloods and Short Tails need, let alone many other python species.

How big of prey items are you feeding? You said adequate sized, but you didnt say how big the animal was and how big the prey was.

This is all just a process of elimination.

Get each thing taken care of, and your experiences with your animals will be much more rewarding as well as the animals health flourishing.

[Tim Mead]

IMO, the one that is not feeding regulary is not "content" with its living arrangements..While your temps and all may be correct there is SOMETHING that isn't kosher with the animal, could be bedding,lighting,enclosure any number of things..Of which you'll have to figure out..Have a hide box?
How and what are ya feeding..Many brongs are very timid and eat dead left overnite..
On the nervous unacclimated one, Wish ya luck, At that age and level of scardiness I'd write them off as such, but would not Dare say it couldn't be fixed..But it would take one VERY passionate man or woman..

[CallmeUmaster]

Yes he is a captive bred animal, i was told he was only kept and ment for breeding by its previous owner. Good idea about the stick i think ill give that a try, and the male does eat almost every feeding and is shedding normaly.
kind of hard to tell, well the cage is 3 ft long and he can touch both ends at the same time so he is about 3ft long and hes a fat sucker. i feed him a medium or smaller large rat. and the female is mabe a foot and a half. she isnt even aslogn as her tank. i feed her a small rat. she rarely eats but whenever she does she eats small rats. i just wish i could get her eating, mabe if she would start eating she would do some growing.
for the males hide i got a big rubbermaid tub cut a hole in the side of it. he seems to love it. and the female has a a nice exoterra rock she loves to hide in.
and ive tried leaving the rat ( i feed frozen/thaw ) in over night and it never works. with her ive found if she doesnt touch it within 2 hours then she isnt going to eat it.
By the way, im glad i found this sight. Ive been on kingsnake, repticzone, etc and here you guys actualy listen to what people have to say instead of instantly start flaming.
Thanks!

[2kdime]

Another thing you might try would be to get a fecal done at the vets to rule out internal parasites.

Are you using two hides? Which side is your hide over?

To make it even easier, ditch the hot spot for now.

You just need to try handling the animals more to get them used to being handled.

Get the humidity up to 60 to 70% as well. 50% is too dry for these snakes and will lead to respiratory infections..

If your set on using the tanks, cover at least 3 sides of it with something dark. Black the thing out.

Here's an example of what I keep my adults/larger animals in, imagine how much light is getting into the tubs. They're eating every week and real calm and docile. What were once uppity animals, after spending some time in these as well as getting handled really made a difference.




I know this all sounds like a lot to do for your animals, and it is. But with any species, there are requirements to keep them at their optimum health.

[CallmeUmaster]

Nah, its not to much to do. If it needs to be done then it will be done. I want the best for them so i am and and doing the best i can to provide them the best care. I really apreciate all of the help. Great looking rack, wish i could get my hands on something like that lol. Im only using tanks because money is a little short.. Instead of the heatlamp would it be better if i switched to UTH?