Shipping in the Winter

[nbelval]

Hello,

I posted below with the confusion on humidity levels during an URI.

Now I'm curious as to how do you pack a ball python for shipping keeping in mind the outside temps will be between 20 - 30 degrees.

I received two snakes in one of the boxes you can get from LLLreptile (white with red lettering and styrofoam inserts on all sides. The two snakes were in seperate bags, with crumpled newspaper and two handwarmers. My vet said this was not acceptable and they should have had more warmers and been put in a secondary container on the inside of the box with handwarmers in direct contact with the containers. When I opened the box the handwarmers were not in contact with the snakes, but I don't know if this is from shifting during shipping. Snakes arrived ice cold, both have survived so far, one has an URI and the one that I originally wanted and paid for appears to be the wrong gender (will be having it probed on Thursday). I've owned ball pythons for a few years, but am new to breeding/shipping/etc. and any advice is appreciated. I don't want to demand a refund if the seller packed his animals correctly, but it he was negligent at all, or he sexed them wrong I will be contacting him to see if we can resolve this.
Anyone see anything wrong with the packing that I mentioned above?
Thank in advance,
Nicole

[Freakie_frog]

I personally don't ship when the temps get below freezing it is just far to much risk to the animal. How ever when I do ship regardless of cooler or warmer weather, the box is insulated and there is some form of shipping substrate to reduce the amount of air that the warmers or cool packs have to effect.

Hope that helps

[J.Vandegrift]

I don't ship below about 30 degrees. I always use a 3/4" thick styro box with one 40hr heat pack taped to the lid and not touching the snake. I actually ususally try to put the heat pack in the opposite corner from where the snake is. Depending on the temps I poke anywhere from 1-4 holes with a screwdriver in the box. I have never had any problems.

Are you sure they were hand warmers and not the proper heat packs? They don't really look all that different. Were the heat packs still warm when you opened the box? I would ask your vet how many snakes he has ever shipped. I would never put a heat pack in direct contact with the deli cup a snake was in.

[ColinWeaver]

...with handwarmers in direct contact with the containers.

Putting a heat pack in direct contact with a container can do as much or more harm to the snake as the cold can. Heat packs get very hot (upwards of 140 F).

[josh@outbackreps]

Here is a link to a post I made when we were running as J&J Reptiles when in Maine.
Now that I am working for Outback Reptiles the temps are not as extreme her in Va, but the packaging still stays the same.

Hope this helps.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=80547

[nbelval]

Thanks everyone. My only thing now is, are the two hand warmers sufficient in these temps and for the duration of the trip? Wondering if the 40 hour ones should have been used instead.

[Sloanreptiles]

Its better for the snake too be cold then burn up and die. The way you are describing the snakes were shipped seems fine to me. Like Colin said the heat packs get up to 140 degrees, if that was directly under the snake it would burn the snake. We ship our animals in the same box that most people use(red and white boxes) that have 3/4 in. foam. We tape the heat pack to the top of the foam, And fill the box with shredded paper. Never had a problem doing it that way. Hope this helps.

[Sloanreptiles]

Thanks everyone. My only thing now is, are the two hand warmers sufficient in these temps and for the duration of the trip? Wondering if the 40 hour ones should have been used instead.

They should have used the 40+ hour heat packs. Were the hand warmers still warm when it got there?

[twistedtails]

Hello,

I posted below with the confusion on humidity levels during an URI.

Now I'm curious as to how do you pack a ball python for shipping keeping in mind the outside temps will be between 20 - 30 degrees.

I received two snakes in one of the boxes you can get from LLLreptile (white with red lettering and styrofoam inserts on all sides. The two snakes were in seperate bags, with crumpled newspaper and two handwarmers. My vet said this was not acceptable and they should have had more warmers and been put in a secondary container on the inside of the box with handwarmers in direct contact with the containers. When I opened the box the handwarmers were not in contact with the snakes, but I don't know if this is from shifting during shipping. Snakes arrived ice cold, both have survived so far, one has an URI and the one that I originally wanted and paid for appears to be the wrong gender (will be having it probed on Thursday). I've owned ball pythons for a few years, but am new to breeding/shipping/etc. and any advice is appreciated. I don't want to demand a refund if the seller packed his animals correctly, but it he was negligent at all, or he sexed them wrong I will be contacting him to see if we can resolve this.
Anyone see anything wrong with the packing that I mentioned above?
Thank in advance,
Nicole

It sounds like your biggest problem would be one of them having a RI. I don't think it is possible for a snake to get an RI overnight. That snake was most likely sick when it was shipped to you. If you don't mind, who did you get them from? PM me if you don't want it publicly known. Did you contact the seller as soon as the animals showed up to your house about the conditions and RI?

[nbelval]

I received the animals on the 31st. This is the condition I received them in...
http://picasaweb.google.com/PricklyP...K2ppZXtlsTLaA#
I thought they were dead. I noticed the males belly contract slightly while taking photos as proof that they arrived deceased, so I then warmed them up as quickly as possible. The signs of RI didn't start until the 9th. I kept their tanks at 95 in the hot end and 80 at the cool realizing that an RI may set in. The smaller female has so far been fine.
So I believe the RI set in here under my care. I do feel it wouldn't have happened though had they not been half frozen when they arrived. My vet wholeheartedly agrees and also feels they should not have been shipped at a temp below 40 degrees.
Lesson learned on my part and I will never have animals shipped to me below these temps again, but I do feel it is the shippers responsibility to ensure the safety and welfare of their animals.
I would like to wait until I go back in to the vet on thursday and find out for sure the gender of the animal (as that is now in question), and then offer the seller the chance to rectify the situation before I slander them in anyway.
I'm basically trying to collect any evidence of wrong doing on their part by a group of peers.
Oh, and yes I contacted the seller as soon as they arrived and reported the condition and I also contacted about the RI and the fact that I'd be bringing him to the vet. He asked me to keep him updated. I have not yet contacted him about the visit, since I wanted to get the fecal results and the gender double checked prior to contact. If you think I should make him aware of the RI (it was pretty obvious and he even said it sounded like an RI), as diagnosed by the vet now I will. Just thought I should have all my info straight before presenting anything to him.
If he's done nothing wrong then I don't want to berate him either. But I'm getting the impression that at the very least the heat packs were inadequate.
They too (the heat packs) were cold upon receiving the animals. After I had noticed the animals were alive I scanned one with my temp gun and the temp was 52 degrees, this was after about 10 minutes after arrival. And they had been sitting on heat pads in their tanks while I took the photos.