Hets w/visual traits/ Breeders opinions

[RandyRemington]

It's certainly possible for a homozygous co-dominant to come from the wild. RDR's Platy is close. I believe it's a combo of two different mutations of the same gene. Not exactly the same as an imported ivory or super pastel but close.

The thing is that you would expect the heterozygous versions of your co-dominant mutation to be much more common and likely get imported and named first. But if the heterozygous co-dominants are subtle and/or maybe they come from a place where they don't commonly export (and only your two homozygous males where extreme enough to make it out) I could see it happening.

For whatever reason we never heard of what ended up named lesser (the heterozygous with normal co-dom) before platy. I think there where some just plain lessers imported later but the first to get named was what should have been much more rare; the more striking platy combo ahead of what should have been the more common lesser. Also, there was a rumor of a white wild caught ball python passing through the US on its way to Asia before any cb leucistic or their hets. Not sure how verifiable that is but it was supposedly a young male. I always wondered what it was (ivory?) if real and if it got “accidently” housed with any females before shipping out.

I guess the proof is in the breeding. If you have produced enough babies with normals and they all have the same distinctive look I would think you are onto something and may well have wild bred homozygous co-doms. Hope you are close to reproducing the homozygous version like dad as that would really remove any doubt.

[Bill Buchman]

It's certainly possible for a homozygous co-dominant to come from the wild. RDR's Platy is close. I believe it's a combo of two different mutations of the same gene. Not exactly the same as an imported ivory or super pastel but close.

The thing is that you would expect the heterozygous versions of your co-dominant mutation to be much more common and likely get imported and named first. But if the heterozygous co-dominants are subtle and/or maybe they come from a place where they don't commonly export (and only your two homozygous males where extreme enough to make it out) I could see it happening.

For whatever reason we never heard of what ended up named lesser (the heterozygous with normal co-dom) before platy. I think there where some just plain lessers imported later but the first to get named was what should have been much more rare; the more striking platy combo ahead of what should have been the more common lesser. Also, there was a rumor of a white wild caught ball python passing through the US on its way to Asia before any cb leucistic or their hets. Not sure how verifiable that is but it was supposedly a young male. I always wondered what it was (ivory?) if real and if it got “accidently” housed with any females before shipping out.

I guess the proof is in the breeding. If you have produced enough babies with normals and they all have the same distinctive look I would think you are onto something and may well have wild bred homozygous co-doms. Hope you are close to reproducing the homozygous version like dad as that would really remove any doubt.

Fairly close I think Randy? I produced 3 large clutches from my WC(bush baby) male x normal females in 08. They yielded 13.12 offspring that ALL have the same suble appearance at first glance AND multiple distinct markers upon closer inspection as well -- ALL 25!!

I held back the 12 girls and a boy as insurance. The oldest 4 females of the 12 will be 2 years in April and at least 3 will be up to size. I will begin pairing them in March I suspect. Time will tell.

Worst case -- I will have a dozen REAL pretty normals.

[250rider]

this is the most interesting thread I have read in a while. makes you really think as to weather a gene is actually simple recessive or co-dom however subtle the traits may be...maybe we've been looking at all the established recessive genes all wrong...especially since we've seen a lot of unusual stuff come out of slightly odd "normal" looking animals..isn't it all theory after all?...is there really a way we can prove indefinitely as to weather something is simple recessive or co-dom/dom?...this really makes you rethink everything we know about bp genetics...keep this thread going!...

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

There is but that would require genetic testing. Of every known morph out there. Dom, co-com, recessive and other. Im surprised there isnt a genetic scientist out there who hasn't heard of all this and taken an interest.

I still need to get good pics up of my hets so we can do more comparisons.

[250rider]

was just thinking...my het ghosts are have the head spot and are quite high contrast and have a more defined patern and are a bit brighter than my norms..but my mojave het gost looks just like my mojave that is het for nothing...it gets more complicated when you got different genes going on that could disguise these het "markers" especially now that there is a lot more co-dom and recessive combos...some of these markers are just going to be lost in all thats going on...

[bad-one]

I was wondering if someone has noticed anything different about spiders that are het. ghost

[SlitherinSisters]

Hmm, I hope you're right about the het clowns having white highlight This is my 50% het boy. He doesn't go along with the light color that people look for in a het clown, he's quite dark. Either way I love his dark color, he's got a lovely sheen to him.



Here's one for the OP

[twistedtails]

Could it have been genetic stripe?

Anyone have any theories on identifying the more likely het stripes out of possible het stripes?

At this point it is possible for them to carry any genes. I have just found that through comparison, they look like het caramels. Hopefully one of these girls will take this season for me. I will definately post pics if they do!

[Foschi Exotic Serpents]

Pictures of some of my hets. Compare traits with your hets.

100% Het Caramel pair. They are light in color, have light burgandy heads, abberant melty pattern similer to many het pieds..
~Pair..


100% Het Pied pair. Nothing too noticable except the melty pattern and belly markers. Pic number 2 shows the females belly markers. pic 3 shows the males markers.
~Pair..

~Female markers..

~Male's markers..


This is my het clown female. She is very light like a fire. Bit of stuck skin behind her head despite high humidity. Lots of white outlining. Despite her small size she has large scales spaced far apart along her spine like a large adult sometimes has. She has a remarkably clear belly. The male looks just like her only a tiny bit darker in color but his spine scales are even bigger and more noticable. I have not gotten pics of him yet.

[AHOOD]

My 66% albino het has white spots along his back and sides. I will post a pic when calms down later this evening.