when i said "just throw a rat in" i was refering to the ones that still won't take f/t. None of my f/t eaters will take food w/out me tonging. And when they do strike the f/t i like to regrab the prey by the tail or foot*(whichever is exposed with the snake wrapped around it) and tug on the rat for a minute as if it was resisting. You can pretty much instantly feel the snake get a tighter grip as you keep pulling on the rat. I wish they all ate f/t (and i'm still working with them) but i'm pretty sure the live eaters work for there meals on their own.