Be loyal to your snake...not your Vet

[CritterVet]

Just wanted to speak to the RI issue....I am convinced that "bacterial respiratory infections" are over-diagnosed in reptiles. There are a lot of viruses out there that attack the respiratory system and the mucosa of the upper GI tract (esophagus, oral cavity) that cause similar signs as RIs. However, it is extremely rare that the client is willing to spend $125 to have a sample sent to UF for viral testing, so it is never accurately diagnosed. These viruses are contagious.

Also, even though bacterial respiratory infections are almost always due to normal commensal bacteria over-growing in a compromised snake, they still can be contagious. Animals (including humans) are always in balance with their environment and the microbes in it. If an animal is challenged with a high enough load of bacteria, it is likely to get sick. Snakes with RIs are carrying and shedding more bacteria into the environment than normal, and in this way can be contagious to other snakes.

[Big Gunns]

Just wanted to speak to the RI issue....I am convinced that "bacterial respiratory infections" are over-diagnosed in reptiles. There are a lot of viruses out there that attack the respiratory system and the mucosa of the upper GI tract (esophagus, oral cavity) that cause similar signs as RIs. However, it is extremely rare that the client is willing to spend $125 to have a sample sent to UF for viral testing, so it is never accurately diagnosed. These viruses are contagious.

Also, even though bacterial respiratory infections are almost always due to normal commensal bacteria over-growing in a compromised snake, they still can be contagious. Animals (including humans) are always in balance with their environment and the microbes in it. If an animal is challenged with a high enough load of bacteria, it is likely to get sick. Snakes with RIs are carrying and shedding more bacteria into the environment than normal, and in this way can be contagious to other snakes.

BG agrees with CV. If your snake is sick, don't put it with another one.

Big Gunns is gonna talk to Scott Stahl to see if he did in fact say that they're not contagious.

[HRH Ingenue]

Your snake is 100% dependent on you for it's well being. You need to do the right thing for it.

Let BG ask you all a question. Would you take your kid that has heart problems to a foot doctor? Just because someone is a Vet, it doesn't mean they know ANYTHING ABOUT REPTILES. In most cases(and BG really means "most") Vets know less than you about your reptile.

Great Post! I found out the hard way when my boa got a new cage and irritated her nose when she checked out her new surroundings. I underestimated how many lamps I would need and one evening the temp dropped pretty low while she was soaking. I was paranoid when she didn't want to eat that her raw nose had turned into stomatitis or an RI, so I took her to the only vet that saw exotics in my area (Thinking I was doing the right thing). He told me that he had some other boa patients that go for routine care (Do people really do that? Ok, but have you ever seen a snake with a problem?) He literally took one look at my snake and told me that she was a very sick snake. I have had her for 10 years and I know her very well... she was about to shed, so she looked a little dull, but her eyes weren't opaque yet. I tried to tell him that, but he still insisted that she was very sick and dehydrated. He then went so far to tell me that she may be septic. He had not run any tests or a CBC so I asked how he knew this and why her behavior had not changed (other than missing a meal, probably because of her sore nose) if she was so sick. He pointed out some discolorations as his reasoning (that were normal for my snake prior to shed). He did examine inside her mouth and it was fine. This was right before a weekend and he recommended spending over $1,000 to send her to Texas A&M University for 24 hour care over the weekend. Everything but her nose was normal so I knew she was not that sick, but I did question myself. I asked what else I could do. He sent me home with Baytril injections and told me to come back after the weekend. I put her back in her old cage since I knew how to keep the temp and humidity perfect in it. I gave her the injections and then went back to the vet on monday. She was even closer to shedding time so he thought she had gotten worse. Her nose looked better and since that was my original reason for going, I disagreed. He went on and on about how sick she was and how she was septic. I have a great working relationship with my equine vet and I know a bit about infections and septicemia and that you can't state "facts" without any testing. He suggested she stay so he could give her fluids and supportive care. He had the nerve to tell me I should start thinking about euthanazia. Again, I asked what else I could do. Since he was so sure that she was septic, I told him to do a complete blood workup. He said it had to be sent to the lab so the results could take a few days. He actually knew about Fortaz and gave me that to give her. She shed and deficated a few days later. It was all perfectly normal. If she was so dehydrated, how did she have a perfect, complete shed? I called to inquire about the lab results. The receptionist said that everything was normal. I said, "So she isn't septic?" She said that she must not be because there was nothing written on it. I told her that she had deficated and shed fine, so I was asked to bring her back in for another exam. To me, she looked perfectly normal. Her nose was fine, everything seemed fine to me. I took the defication and shed in to prove my point... He didn't even look at it. He still insisted she was sick... but this time he said cancer. I don't even remember his reasons for the new diagnosis. He said I should continue with the anti-biotics and nebulizer (oops left that part out) and that she had a 30/70 chance for survival. I didn't even bother asking where he got that when all her tests were normal. I took her home and got her a frozen rat... I had decided that if she ate, she was fine. She ate, and two years later she still has not succumb to the "cancer". I put her through so much stress over a scraped up nose. I was also very worried as to what I would do if any of my exotics were to actually get sick, so I told my equine vet about the ordeal. She told me that although she can't really treat my reptiles, she can get me baytril, Fortaz, or any meds I needed.... The moral of this long story (sorry) is that BG is right in saying we know our reptiles best. I am not privaledged with a plethera of herp vets to chose from. I thought I was doing the right thing and I trusted that he knew snakes... He may know what he read in the latest vet journal, but he doesn't know my snake!

[Big Gunns]

Great Post! I found out the hard way when my boa got a new cage and irritated her nose when she checked out her new surroundings. I underestimated how many lamps I would need and one evening the temp dropped pretty low while she was soaking. I was paranoid when she didn't want to eat that her raw nose had turned into stomatitis or an RI, so I took her to the only vet that saw exotics in my area (Thinking I was doing the right thing). He told me that he had some other boa patients that go for routine care (Do people really do that? Ok, but have you ever seen a snake with a problem?) He literally took one look at my snake and told me that she was a very sick snake. I have had her for 10 years and I know her very well... she was about to shed, so she looked a little dull, but her eyes weren't opaque yet. I tried to tell him that, but he still insisted that she was very sick and dehydrated. He then went so far to tell me that she may be septic. He had not run any tests or a CBC so I asked how he knew this and why her behavior had not changed (other than missing a meal, probably because of her sore nose) if she was so sick. He pointed out some discolorations as his reasoning (that were normal for my snake prior to shed). He did examine inside her mouth and it was fine. This was right before a weekend and he recommended spending over $1,000 to send her to Texas A&M University for 24 hour care over the weekend. Everything but her nose was normal so I knew she was not that sick, but I did question myself. I asked what else I could do. He sent me home with Baytril injections and told me to come back after the weekend. I put her back in her old cage since I knew how to keep the temp and humidity perfect in it. I gave her the injections and then went back to the vet on monday. She was even closer to shedding time so he thought she had gotten worse. Her nose looked better and since that was my original reason for going, I disagreed. He went on and on about how sick she was and how she was septic. I have a great working relationship with my equine vet and I know a bit about infections and septicemia and that you can't state "facts" without any testing. He suggested she stay so he could give her fluids and supportive care. He had the nerve to tell me I should start thinking about euthanazia. Again, I asked what else I could do. Since he was so sure that she was septic, I told him to do a complete blood workup. He said it had to be sent to the lab so the results could take a few days. He actually knew about Fortaz and gave me that to give her. She shed and deficated a few days later. It was all perfectly normal. If she was so dehydrated, how did she have a perfect, complete shed? I called to inquire about the lab results. The receptionist said that everything was normal. I said, "So she isn't septic?" She said that she must not be because there was nothing written on it. I told her that she had deficated and shed fine, so I was asked to bring her back in for another exam. To me, she looked perfectly normal. Her nose was fine, everything seemed fine to me. I took the defication and shed in to prove my point... He didn't even look at it. He still insisted she was sick... but this time he said cancer. I don't even remember his reasons for the new diagnosis. He said I should continue with the anti-biotics and nebulizer (oops left that part out) and that she had a 30/70 chance for survival. I didn't even bother asking where he got that when all her tests were normal. I took her home and got her a frozen rat... I had decided that if she ate, she was fine. She ate, and two years later she still has not succumb to the "cancer". I put her through so much stress over a scraped up nose. I was also very worried as to what I would do if any of my exotics were to actually get sick, so I told my equine vet about the ordeal. She told me that although she can't really treat my reptiles, she can get me baytril, Fortaz, or any meds I needed.... The moral of this long story (sorry) is that BG is right in saying we know our reptiles best. I am not privaledged with a plethera of herp vets to chose from. I thought I was doing the right thing and I trusted that he knew snakes... He may know what he read in the latest vet journal, but he doesn't know my snake!

Big Gunns could write a book thicker than War and Peace of stories he's heard just like this. Thanks for the post. BG didn't post this thread for no reason. Pay attention people. Find a QUALIFIED VET. To be perfectly honest. You're probably better off not going at all if you can't find one. It's sad, but 100% true.

[withonor]

Important topic and one of the better "old" threads to be bumped recently, but there is one thing I want to comment on.

Umm,



Are you sure that's a trick question?


dr del

Of course I was expecting to see a ball python eating a rabbit, but one that was pink and had little to no fur, not a rabbit at that stage. Unbelievable.

[Big Gunns]

Important topic and one of the better "old" threads to be bumped recently, but there is one thing I want to comment on.



Of course I was expecting to see a ball python eating a rabbit, but one that was pink and had little to no fur, not a rabbit at that stage. Unbelievable.

The pic doesn't mean it got the rabbit down(sometimes snakes wrap anything), although BG has some big balls(no pun) that could probably eat a small bunny wabbit.

[Dave763]

I think it's creepy how you refer to yourself in the third person

Good post ...just weird.

[withonor]

The pic doesn't mean it got the rabbit down(sometimes snakes wrap anything), although BG has some big balls(no pun) that could probably eat a small bunny wabbit.

True, I did consider that. That ball python has some GIRTH. The rabbit looks bigger but I'm sure if it was wet and fur matted down it would look like the perfect food. We have no proof either way so let our opinions collide! The rabbit was half eaten.

[Big Gunns]

I think it's creepy how you refer to yourself in the third person

Good post ...just weird.

It takes a while, but don't worry, soon all that "creepy"ness turns into BG man luv and admiration.