i didnt think of c-list ill have to try that and im gonna ask at the pet shop i go to if they know any one that they can put me in contact with they actually had 2 or 3 baby norm tics and a bino burm and a granite burm in there the last time i was there so i might have some luck there they also had some 100% het pied male balls for 50 buck too but all i had was enough to get my feeders