Keep , try again or make food?

[rhsm]

Hi all I bred my ratties for the first time and my oldest are about 3 weeks old now.

So I wanted to ask you guys. I had 6 females and bred them all.

1 had 12 babies did wonderful with birth and taking care of them.

1 had 12 but ate 6 of them from the get go. But has taken care of the other 6 just fine.

1 had about 15 but all were still born not a one lived.

1 had 8 and didn't want to take care of them at all. She would put them on one side and sleep on the other. Didn't want anything at all to do with them.
So I tried to split them up between 2 other moms but ones babies were to much older I think cause they weren't getting food so a 1 died before I realized this and then I gave them all to the other mom and she has done Wonderful with them and hers.

1 never had any babies at all.

And of course the 1 that had her 7 babies ate 1 and then took over all the other ones babies too.

So my question here is should I keep the ones that had issues?

1 all still born
1 didn't want to take care them at all.
1 ate half
1 didn't have any at all.

I am thinking about make all these guys food and keeping females from the 2 good moms cause I don't want a repeat of what happened if possible.

Just wondering what you guys think and how you all handle this kind of thing.

Also a very important question
Does this seem normal for breeding. All this things that happened.

I have actually changed their feeding up now. I give much more than just lab blocks as I feared this could be one of the issues.
But other than that I don't know what else could be changed except to get rid of the ones that had problems.

We feel these guys should be treated as any pet would be til its their time to be used for their purpose we intented .

So just wanted to get input on this and see if any of you can help since you all have so much more experience with this.
Thanks
rhsm

[SnakeGirl3]

My experience with rats is still relatively short, but I've always been told (and my experiences follow this) that the moms won't harm healthy pinks. Neither will males. It's all part of their family order. If the moms (or dads) ate them, there was probably something wrong with them, that the human couldn't see.

The stillborn litter--has that mom bred before? Perhaps it was just a "first litter" type of issue for her? Too young, or not enough of a nutrient she should have gotten? Not enough fat stored? There's many reasons why it could have happened. I don't know that I would give up on them without giving them at least another chance or two. Could have been a fluke. And you're always gonna lose a few babies. Typically out of a 12-baby litter, 9 or 10 survive, but sometimes I'll just have 6 or 7 that make it.

If they continue to have issues, you might consider feeding off a few of the less productive ones.

[frankykeno]

Personally I like to give any female rat a chance if she's healthy and it's her first litter. First time moms in a lot of species do not mother well the first time up to bat but may do quite well with later litters. How are you housing the female rats when they give birth?

[aybe.sea]

some bad luck. the parents could eat them if they werent getting proper nutrients, but i'm sure you're feeding em just fine. hope all goes well if ya give it another go.

ps at first I was reading the '1 had 12 etc' as 'I had 12 etc', needless to say i thought you claimed to have eaten 6 baby rats for a second. lol

[Wh00h0069]

What are you feeding the rats? I would give them one more go around and see it they do any better the next time. Good luck!

[rhsm]

Hi all I was feeding them Mazuri in a 25lb bag not sure of the number but it last for 2 1/2 months so don't need to buy a 50lb bag .
They also got veggies and mainly bananas for fruit as they haven't really taken to any other fruits. Veggies are usually brocolli, sweet potato, corn , peas, carrots etc. Some raw , some frozen warmed some cooked.

I have started adding a homemade grain mix and dog food that is used on a pet rat site.
Plus adding a little L&M blocks too.

They get frozen and fresh veggies with some fruits but more veggies.

So I hope now I am feeding them better.
I also started adding a little cat food to up the protein for the moms as I bought a breeding book from the offical rat club and it said to give mom rats a little cat food for extra protein so I have been adding a little of that too.

They were getting the Mazuri and veggies and fruit before but since I had to problems and the 1 mom that was so skinny I thought I should change up their food.
I'll try this and see how it goes.

I give them the grain mix in the morning or the multi grain oatmeal cooked up.
Then later they get veggies and then at night before going to sleep they get dog food ,cat food and lab blocks to eat over night.

I find that they eat most of everything dividing it up like this.

Do you all ever give any vitamins or anything to your ratties?
If so what kind?
Do you know of any that you can give rats?

Thanks so very much for the help and info.
I really appreciate it.
rhsm

[SnakeGirl3]

I've been told to be iffy with dog food since it is mostly meat, and meat doesn't really make up a whole lot of a rat's natural diet. I would assume cat food would be the same, plus very high in sodium. Also, if you're feeding these rats off, make sure nothing you're giving your rats has Red Dye #40 in it. Red Dye #40 is toxic to reptiles.

The Mazuri 9F and 6F are both very good food for your rats, and they are great for moms who are trying to gain weight back after birthing. I've been feeding my rats Mazuri and I've not had any problems. I don't give mine anything special, like fruit or veggies (don't have the time to cut up/prepare stuff like that with all the snakes to take care of and a full-time job). I just make sure they have a good supply of Mazuri blocks and plenty of fresh water.

[rhsm]

I forgot to answer about housing them.
I have them in a rack set up hubby made from the pattern I found on here I believe.
I keep two per bin.
Right now though I have the one who lost all her babies alone and the one who ate 6 of her babies alone too. The one that ate 6 of her babies is very skinny but she is doing fine taking care of the 6 babies she has they are all fat and healthy so I am not sure what her issue is but I won't breed her again I don't think since she got so skinny while being pg.
I can't see bring her down any futher in health.

But all the others are nice size and weight.

I might try to get hubby to make me seperate smaller bins to put the moms in this next time and see if that makes a difference or not.

What are good bins to use for this.
Any sites with good patterns and instructions on this.

I was really worried it was the food I was feeding them thats why I started adding all the other things in .

Actually the dog food I feed them is not real meat packed . Its futher down the list and its fish. Its one that is recommended to feed on several of the pet rat lists I am on.
Its protein is right with the lab blocks.

Since I have started feeding all these different things they seem to be eating a lot better now.
My first babies are showing an interest in the foods too now.
They are really cute ! To bad they have FOOD tatooed on their heads.

Anyway Thanks again so very much for the help and input.
I really appreciate all the advice I can get .
I just want to make sure I am taking care of these guys.
We feel they should be well taken care of while they are here with us. Only fair.
Anyway Thanks
rhsm

[PyramidPythons]

I've been raising rats for many, many years now. I can tell you this, usually ratties do not eat their young, not unless something is definitely wrong. This could range from not being fed enough or not enough of the right nutrients, to something was actually wrong with the babies. The mothers know when their young will not survive and take matters into their own hands to remove them from the litter.

A ten gallon tank for a breeder setup of ratties is actually very tight. It is quite possible that the mother who ate the six young felt very stressed out and felt it was far too crowded to be bringing up 12 youngsters. I would suggest either getting yourself a large tub to keep them in, or if you don't do the tub idea, go with a 20 long tank (or if you keep them as pets, you can get some wonderful wire-type cages made specifically for rats). This will help give them some needed room and allow the mothers to spread out a bit.

As said above, I wouldn't give up on your pack just yet. Just adjust your husbandry a little bit, and I think you'll find yourself having better outcomes.

[rhsm]

Hi ummm I didn't say anything about a 10 gallon tank set up.

I have them in a rat rack with the cement tubs.
I keep two per tub.

Fixing to try to transfer around soon since babies are growing and getting mobile.

I was thinking about putting the birthing moms in a rack like others have made that is smaller then the tubs I have now so they can be alone . I see that a lot of people do this.

I do not want to use any tanks as they are way to heavy for me to deal with.
I clean the tubs out at least once a week and I can't be lugging the heavy tank in and out that much.

I think there is plenty of room in the tubs I have esp since I see on you tube where they are wall to wall rats in these things. I would NEVER put that many in one tub.
I think 2 can live comfortably in them. Even with babies. Although now that the babies are moving around a lot more I will proably be re arranging some of them so that there enough room for eveyone til they wean.

I have a really large Martins cage that I will put the babies in for a while til we co2 them.

Thanks
rhsm