Incubation temps and affect on sex and size

[SnakeGirl3]

Yep, I agree that incubation temp has nothing to do with sex determination . . . however, there's some speculation that certain females tend to throw more females while others throw more males. Check your records again and see if a particular female tends to have more female offspring--it would be interesting to find out if this was true. It seems to be true with mine:

Female #1
7 egg clutch (5 hatched): 5 females
9 egg clutch (9 hatched): 7 females, 2 males

Female #2
7 egg clutch (5 hatched): 1 female, 4 males
7 egg clutch (7 hatched): 3 females, 4 males

However, I do believe that incubation temps can alter pattern and/or color. My first clutch of babies was incubated slightly higher than average (my thermometer sucked back then--I have since replaced it with a more accurate one). The thermometer I used back then said 90 degrees Fahrenheit, but it was +/- 2 degrees. I believe they were actually at 91 or 92, the higher end rather than the lower end, since they began hatching at day 49. Many of the babies from that clutch hatched out with very busy patterns and brighter-than-usual yellow color. The one I held back from that clutch has since darkened a bit, but still seems to have a lighter appearance. As babies, though, one in particular resembled a classic jungle (black and bright yellow--I wonder if the incubation temp is what makes classic jungles . . . could be a hot spot in the incubator for some clutches?).

Interesting theories for sure, though!

[shaunwithbite]

very interesting subject..

[WingedWolfPsion]

Yep, it sure is. I think I'm going to start recording all of that data myself. I can say, though, that I've had clutches very high in girls, and others very high in boys--incubated at the same temperature.

But if there really is a statistical trend, I think we should investigate that. We don't think temps play a role in snake gender...but what if we're wrong? Remember that, up until recently, no one knew that garter snakes were venomous. No one knew that Komodo Dragons were venomous, and they'd actually looked for that before, too.
There is a lot still to be learned, even about animals we THOUGHT we knew.

[OhhWatALoser]

no one knew that garter snakes were venomous. No one knew that Komodo Dragons were venomous, and they'd actually looked for that before, too.
There is a lot still to be learned, even about animals we THOUGHT we knew.

yea going off track here but... huh? this is news to me? got more info on it?

[WingedWolfPsion]

Garters are venomous colubrids--they don't have rear fangs, but they still produce venom in their saliva. You would have to get chewed on for 45 minutes to get a venom reaction (someone actually did this...lol).
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/science/05veno.html

Komodo monitor venom was just discovered this past year.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...gon-venom.html

[SnakeGirl3]

Yep, it sure is. I think I'm going to start recording all of that data myself. I can say, though, that I've had clutches very high in girls, and others very high in boys--incubated at the same temperature.

But if there really is a statistical trend, I think we should investigate that. We don't think temps play a role in snake gender...but what if we're wrong? Remember that, up until recently, no one knew that garter snakes were venomous. No one knew that Komodo Dragons were venomous, and they'd actually looked for that before, too.
There is a lot still to be learned, even about animals we THOUGHT we knew.

Agreed--I have as well. For me, it seems to be more dependent on which female laid the clutch; of course, so far I've only got 2 breedable females. Hopefully in the years to come, I can see if this is also true with more females. Of course, I'm sure there's some females out there who laid a 50/50 split too.

[Hyper Joe]

A ton of great info, thanks for sharing.

One thing though, not too many have noted the weight of the eggs when they were laid vs hatchling weight.

Anyone, anyone.....

[Anarchy]

A ton of great info, thanks for sharing.

One thing though, not too many have noted the weight of the eggs when they were laid vs hatchling weight.

Anyone, anyone.....

yeah i think if you have 90 grAM egg it would probably weight less when it hatched out because when you weigh it with the egg with the shell thats more matter there than when it hatches out ..someone correct me if im wrong..

[muddoc]

Great post Joe. I am a numbers guy, and record copious amounts of data. However, I have never accumulated in one place the egg weight versus the hatchling weight. I do have it, but I trust that your theory makes sense in my mind. Lower temps allow the animals to absorb yolk a bit longer. As a cutter of eggs, I believe that temp has little to do with it, because I "prompt" them out a bit early, and this may be why I see some dropped yolks. With that said, I produce a considerable amount more eggs than you documented, and it may just be that I am seeing more unabsorbed yolks, due to the larger sampling size.

As far as your sex thing, I will have to agree with Brad, in that sex determination in Ball Pythons I belive is chromosome dependent. Two years ago, I produced a very male heavy season, and last year, I was very female heavy. Both years, the incubator was within 1 degree of incubating temps.

Great work, and keep up the studying. It is always fascinating to look at numbers, and see if there are any pieces of the puzzle that we have been missing.