Agression In Snakes

[cinderbird]

Hmmm. I've heard those same myths propagated on these forums.

Kinda like: snakes aren't aggressive.

Every time i see the first of these two statements, it has been corrected in the same manor the OP was corrected. It just simply isn't true and actually puts a keeper, especially one of the larger species in more danger and can create a situation where i dangerous, mistaken feeding response bite is more likely to happen. I have never seen a thread regarding that feeding myth where that has not been addressed and i've been here for over 2 years and browse -frequently-.

I'm still not agreeing with you on the aggressive thing. I understand where you're coming from when you say it, but i have to agree more with WingedWolfPsion, in my (albeit limited) experience owning and interacting with snakes, ive only ever revived defensive-related bites and i have what i could consider a testy animal, every time i open her tub she's there eyeing me up to strike. But -i- encroached on HER space and am bothering her, considering she is new to the routine im not all that surprised she's tried to bite me multipe times, is this an aggressive snake or a defensive snake?

I cant really address what skiploader said, considering i have no experience with large colurbrids or HOTs. :/

[Skiploder]

Every time i see the first of these two statements, it has been corrected in the same manor the OP was corrected. It just simply isn't true and actually puts a keeper, especially one of the larger species in more danger and can create a situation where i dangerous, mistaken feeding response bite is more likely to happen. I have never seen a thread regarding that feeding myth where that has not been addressed and i've been here for over 2 years and browse -frequently-.

I'm still not agreeing with you on the aggressive thing. I understand where you're coming from when you say it, but i have to agree more with WingedWolfPsion, in my (albeit limited) experience owning and interacting with snakes, ive only ever revived defensive-related bites and i have what i could consider a testy animal, every time i open her tub she's there eyeing me up to strike. But -i- encroached on HER space and am bothering her, considering she is new to the routine im not all that surprised she's tried to bite me multipe times, is this an aggressive snake or a defensive snake?

I cant really address what skiploader said, considering i have no experience with large colurbrids or HOTs. :/

I just exchanged e-mails with Ken Foose regarding a large male pseustes he has for sale.

The snake has been described as "Aggressive". I would classify some of my snakes as conforming to the several types of aggression as aggregated in the accepted and defined categories of animal aggression.

So you keep ball pythons and carpets............... do not take this the wrong way, but I would not expect you to be able to address a question regarding snake aggression.

[cinderbird]

So you keep ball pythons and carpets............... do not take this the wrong way, but I would not expect you to be able to address a question regarding snake aggression.

Nothing taken the wrong way i think i actually addressed that at the end of my post. I am very limited in the amount of species i have had enough interaction with to classify as experience.

[Skiploder]

I'm still not agreeing with you on the aggressive thing. I understand where you're coming from when you say it, but i have to agree more with WingedWolfPsion, in my (albeit limited) experience owning and interacting with snakes, ive only ever revived defensive-related bites and i have what i could consider a testy animal, every time i open her tub she's there eyeing me up to strike. But -i- encroached on HER space and am bothering her, considering she is new to the routine im not all that surprised she's tried to bite me multipe times, is this an aggressive snake or a defensive snake?

What's the difference between aggression and being defensive? Is there such a thing as defensive aggression?

Is the snake being defensive or is it responding with aggression to an irritation?

I would categorize rolling up in a ball as defensive behavior. I would categorize a defensive bite as defensive aggression.

There is a recognizable difference between being defensive (running, hiding, playing dead, curling into a ball) and being aggressive in defense - i.e.: striking in response to a perceive threat or irritation.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Yes, there are a few species of snakes that will turn at bay and come toward you if they feel cornered--but not many. As I said. And ball pythons aren't one of them.

MaleXMale aggression is of a completely different type--snakes engage in ritualized combat. They don't bite each other. They don't display this behavior toward humans.

Female pythons defend their eggs. They bite those who come too close to them. They do not leave their eggs and rush toward intruders. This is still defensive behavior.

If someone came toward you threateningly with a weapon, and you shoved them away, and then started kicking or hitting to keep them away when they came back, but never approached them in return once they backed off, would your behavior be aggressive or defensive? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

[Skiploder]

Yes, there are a few species of snakes that will turn at bay and come toward you if they feel cornered--but not many. As I said. And ball pythons aren't one of them.

I can name quite a few. Of course ball pythons aren't one of them - the OP never made that claim.

MaleXMale aggression is of a completely different type--snakes engage in ritualized combat. They don't bite each other. They don't display this behavior toward humans.

That's based on your definition of aggression. Aggression exists on several levels. Some species engage in more severe ritualized combat. By definition, these are more aggressive snakes.

Female pythons defend their eggs. They bite those who come too close to them. They do not leave their eggs and rush toward intruders. This is still defensive behavior.

If someone came toward you threateningly with a weapon, and you shoved them away, and then started kicking or hitting to keep them away when they came back, but never approached them in return once they backed off, would your behavior be aggressive or defensive? I think the answer is pretty obvious.

Again, there is defensive behavior and aggressive defensive behavior. These are not made up terms - these are actual classifications of animal behavior.

A ball python may or may not bite you when you try to take her eggs. That is maternal or parental based aggressive behavior. A brown snake may not only try to bite you, but chase you away as well - this is maternal aggressive behavior on a higher scale.

If someone came towards me with a weapon and I kicked them or hit them to keep them away - that's aggressive defensive behavior. If I run away, it's purely defensive behavior. If I go on the offensive after that, that's a different type of aggression.

Ball pythons will display low levels of parental aggressive behavior, will usually not display aggressive defensive behavior and sometimes display irritation induced aggressive behavior.

Cribos can display significantly higher levels of parental aggressive behavior, will more often than not display aggressive defensive behavior and a high percentage of animals will display irritation induced aggressive behavior.

What both species have in common is that they are easily accustomed to handling through conditioning. That addresses only two types of aggressive behavior - aggressive defensive and condition based. It has little to no measurable effect on the remaining 5 defined types of animal aggression.

Bottom line: ball pythons may not be aggressive but many any other snakes are. Defining aggression by whether a snake chases you or not is not the end all.

The OP's question was flawed (no insult intended Tiffany). Just because your snake becomes acclimated to handling does not mean it's still not an aggressive animal. It only means that it does not display an aggressive defense response (aka biting) through conditioning.

It will still go after prey with the same gusto, defend it's brood with the same zeal and become ticked off if you mess with it too much. It also won't lessen the level of male to male aggression - ritualized or not.

[twistedtails]

Here is the Webster definition:

Main Entry: ag·gres·sive
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈgre-siv\
Function: adjective
Date: 1824
1 a : tending toward or exhibiting aggression <aggressive behavior> b : marked by combative readiness <an aggressive fighter>
2 a : marked by obtrusive energy b : marked by driving forceful energy or initiative : enterprising <an aggressive salesman>
3 : strong or emphatic in effect or intent <aggressive colors> <aggressive flavors>
4 : growing, developing, or spreading rapidly <aggressive bone tumors>
5 : more severe, intensive, or comprehensive than usual especially in dosage or extent <aggressive chemotherapy>

— ag·gres·sive·ly adverb

— ag·gres·sive·ness noun

— ag·gres·siv·i·ty \ˌa-ˌgre-ˈsi-və-tē\ noun


If you ask me....I have a female that when I open her cage is ready to strike. Yes I'm in her cage, but, she is still "marked by combative readiness". Sounds like even ball pythons can be aggressive.

[Skiploder]

Here is the Webster definition:

Main Entry: ag·gres·sive
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈgre-siv\
Function: adjective
Date: 1824
1 a : tending toward or exhibiting aggression <aggressive behavior> b : marked by combative readiness <an aggressive fighter>
2 a : marked by obtrusive energy b : marked by driving forceful energy or initiative : enterprising <an aggressive salesman>
3 : strong or emphatic in effect or intent <aggressive colors> <aggressive flavors>
4 : growing, developing, or spreading rapidly <aggressive bone tumors>
5 : more severe, intensive, or comprehensive than usual especially in dosage or extent <aggressive chemotherapy>

— ag·gres·sive·ly adverb

— ag·gres·sive·ness noun

— ag·gres·siv·i·ty \ˌa-ˌgre-ˈsi-və-tē\ noun


If you ask me....I have a female that when I open her cage is ready to strike. Yes I'm in her cage, but, she is still "marked by combative readiness". Sounds like even ball pythons can be aggressive.

A good read if you have the time:

http://books.google.com/books?id=7ZE...0moyer&f=false

[twistedtails]

The problem it seems we are having on this thread is....People are not familiar with the definition of the term "aggression". They are just basing thier opinions off thier perception on the term.

[twistedtails]

A good read if you have the time:

http://books.google.com/books?id=7ZE...0moyer&f=false

I read a bit of that and it is a great read. The predatory aggression explanation indirectly states that all preditory animals can be aggressive.....Interesting!