Culling Healthy Animals

[Eventide]

Okay, so let's run with the "I don't want people mis-representing animals so I cull them" argument, except with ball pythons.

The very same thing can be done to ANY ball python (though it probably happens more often with normals). People can say an animal is het for whatever and sell it for more money, whether it truly is or not. Many scumbags in the hobby do this with their normals in an effort to get rid of them and/or get more money for them. Should we cull all the normal ball pythons because they might be mis-represented in the future? What about all of the other morphs--they can be mis-represented just as easily!

[MikeCurtin]

Actually I opened this one within a day of the other being opened because I was curious to see what another community would say. I closed the one on the Carpet forum because, simply, a couple of people asked me too, and the discussion had run it's course. It's all right there in the thread. The very first one we started, years ago, was a very long thread, much like this one. I think it's still open actually, it just died on it's own...I think it's 3 or 4 years old now.

S~

My mistake, Shawn...I apologize. Any response to my other points? I tried to keep the tone down on MP just because I thought it was in the best interest of everyone not to let the discussion get too out of control. It seems that this debate now has some legs, and I would really like to know your thoughts.

Mike

[SRX]

I waited a bit to see if you would post it here as well. Guess not, so no real way to know without asking. And since you are so trigger happy with the "blicking", I'll ask here.....Was your posting true that you do not even own an arrowana or any white throats (might have been you own a very small one?), or was that a fabrication that was conveniently and quickly deleted on moreliapythonsdotcom?

[Ginevive]

It is an honor to know you, Mr. Wysocki. I feel enlightened by what I have learned from you in this very thread. I am proud to call you a friend!

I am also truly humbled to have spent 5 glorious years as a member of this great forum that allows us to speak our minds and learn from each other to grow not only as people, but as animal owners and caretakers.

What more can I do with my 10,000th post on this forum but to use that privilege provided to me by bp.net to speak my mind and say to Shawn C...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

In light,

Jamie

P.S. Joe: You have some catching up to do!

Great post Happy 10,000th!
Thanks for calling-out Adam on being awesome in this thread; I second that.

[accidental777]

Your whole post describing why you have to cull the snakes you create because they are mutts is crap.
You take the pretty mutts and sell them. When you do this, you take the same amount of risk (muddying purity) of an animal being mislabeled or being used to breed more mutts.
You just cull the ugly ones because they won't bring in as much profit, and you can prevent others from being able to make a profit when the animal becomes breedable.
If you are sooooo worried about the purity of your carpet pythons, because you can not get anymore then stop breeding them and you will stop contributing to the problem.

[MikeCurtin]

Your whole post describing why you have to cull the snakes you create because they are mutts is crap.
You take the pretty mutts and sell them. When you do this, you take the same amount of risk (muddying purity) of an animal being mislabeled or being used to breed more mutts.
You just cull the ugly ones because they won't bring in as much profit, and you can prevent others from being able to make a profit when the animal becomes breedable.
If you are sooooo worried about the purity of your carpet pythons, because you can not get anymore then stop breeding them and you will stop contributing to the problem.

And that's when we get to the heart of things. It's not about culling animals based on deformities, defects, or "weak" genetics. If anything, the genetics on the animals Shawn is killing is better and more diverse than "pure" animals because these animals have been outcrossed with different gene pools.

I think we all know that if we breed 2 different subspecies together, the result will be integrades. If you don't want integrades, don't put the animals together...PERIOD!!! Don't tell me about how you are killing these animals for their own good or to protect the purity or genetics of the captive carpet population. Again, if you hate killing these animals so much, stop producing them.

Notice that I only used the word "cull" when referring to deformed/weak animals. What Shawn is talking about is not culling....it's killing.

Mike Curtin

[jdmls88]

No offense but dude youve got some screws loose, and its ok cuz I said no offense

[TheOtherLeadingBrand]

No way- if I had more normals than I could find homes for, I wouldn't breed them anymore, honestly. This makes me feel depressed. I have normals hatching as we speak. They're not worthless extras. They're living, breathing beings. Two are going to live (for free) with long time (years and years) friends of mine with proven histories of caring pet ownership. The third will find a good home or stay with us. When we had a male adult ball we had no need for in our breeding, I gave him to yet another of my long time friends, and he's an important and loved part of their family.

Certain dog breeds have histories of culling too- simply for color and markings! Even in breeds where those markings are acceptable (just not the current show ring fad). Ugh, ugh, and ugh! If there aren't enough pet homes for mismarked dogs or normal ball pythons, then simple- stop making more.

[Jerhart]

So...how's it going everyone?

[Colin Vestrand]

couple points, one - i do not agree with shawn.
two, it is not at all appropriate to villify him just because you don't agree with him. a parallelism could easily be made between this and the pro-life/pro-choice debate. believe what you want, people, but don't pass judgement...