New breeder

[ShiftyPowers4444]

Hi guys thanks for even taking a second to read this. I'm new to breading but not to snakes. I have a 900 gram male normal bp but dont particularly have any plans on breeding him. I would love to breed a cheap pair seeing as I am still in college but would like to be able to sell the babies due to not having enough room in the dorms for them( sadly). I was thinking of buying a pastel male to keep for future projects and finding a random healthy female around. What would be a easy morph to purchase and sell the babies but keep maybe 1 or 2 for future projects? thanks ahead of time for the advice.

[T&C Exotics]

What you said is good I would also add in an albino and maybe a spider but it all depends on how much room you have. Remember a rack does not really take up much room so you might want to invest in that first.

[cinderbird]

Unless your dorm allows you to keep and breed animals, i would seriously consider against this. Its college, you'll probably be out of the dorms in a year or two where you're somewhere with more room and no one to force you to rehome your animals if you get caught with them.

Be careful with your use of the word cheap.. Do you perhaps mean affordable snakes? I suggest you read up on breeding ball pythons. The VPI Book, Pythons of the World volume II is a great place to start, and Markus Jayne's website http://ballpython.ca/gallery/breeding.html has a wealth of useful info.

Breeding animals is not a guaranteed money maker. Many people get into this hobby for the wrong reasons, and I'm certainly not saying that you are but your post comes across as very monetarily driven. Understand the investments you'd need to make and the decisions you'd have to make if you chose to bring more snakes into the world (and that goes for anyone who is considering breeding anything, not just you I'm going to be doing very small time breeding and am making a business plan, and thinking about some of the less than thrilling aspects of breeding these snakes. Just search for "warning, graphic pictures" threads.. You'll see the hardship that may accompany breeding).

The morphs are the same to breed as normals, that said. If you want to breed, do it for yourself. Do it for the projects and morphs that you want to work with. They're all "easy to purchase" some are more affordable than others, especially co-doms like pastels, yellow bellies and het red axanthics. But there is a reason those animals are less expensive than other morphs and it is because there are a lot of poor examples around. I wouldn't just throw two snakes together, think about the qualities of the possible parents and what they would do to offspring. For example, breeding a bright pastel male to a dark female will produce dark pastel offspring which are undesirable because the pastel is supposed to be a bright morph. (things like that).

If you pick up a female, even one that is of breeding size, she (and any new snakes) you get should be quarantined. Where would you quarantine a snake in a dorm room? (i went to college, they dont call them shoe boxes for nothing lol). Many breeder sized females take a year off after they have been moved around or stressed a lot (like when being moved or transported, or coming from a rescue situation).

Please don't take this as a direct attack on you, as it is anything but. I just feel that there are aspects of breeding that should be brought up because everyone may not think of them. Do some research and then see where you stand in the scheme of things. You can't do wrong by your animals if you're at least willing to learn, good luck!

[ShiftyPowers4444]

Well thank you very much for the detailed and thoughtful reply. I didn't mean for it to sound so heartless I love snakes and want to breed them for that reason. I didn't take it personally I understood your intentions. I have an friend who has been helping me breed and he is extremely good at what he does having his own snake breeding company. I just dont want to bother him all the time so I figured I would as the net. I am allowed to have snakes in my dorm and everyone knows I have multiple snakes. I have the room for breeding just not to many of them. I just can't room 20 new snakes like I would like to is all, it just wouldn't be good for the that many snakes. So I am forced to give away or sell the snakes. If I had it my way I would be more than happy to breed and keep them all, however this is not the situation currently.

My thought now is purchasing a 50% het lavender / 50% het piebald male (which is also possible double het dreamsicle) and breeding him to a female but haven't decide what yet. I'm just eager to start breeding this season but can't particularly find the snakes at the price I can afford for this season.

[cinderbird]

Well thank you very much for the detailed and thoughtful reply. I didn't mean for it to sound so heartless I love snakes and want to breed them for that reason. I didn't take it personally I understood your intentions. I have an friend who has been helping me breed and he is extremely good at what he does having his own snake breeding company. I just dont want to bother him all the time so I figured I would as the net. I am allowed to have snakes in my dorm and everyone knows I have multiple snakes. I have the room for breeding just not to many of them. I just can't room 20 new snakes like I would like to is all, it just wouldn't be good for the that many snakes. So I am forced to give away or sell the snakes. If I had it my way I would be more than happy to breed and keep them all, however this is not the situation currently.

My thought now is purchasing a 50% het lavender / 50% het piebald male (which is also possible double het dreamsicle) and breeding him to a female but haven't decide what yet. I'm just eager to start breeding this season but can't particularly find the snakes at the price I can afford for this season.

Thanks for being so understanding

Its really logistics you need to think of. The average clutch size for BPs is 6-8 eggs give or take (i think the biggest clutch i've heard of is 13 eggs or someting). Are you going to give babies away who haven't had their first meal yet? What happens if no one wants the snakes? Where will you store the food for them, do you have the room for 8-14 snakes. (Bps shouldnt be housed together) etc.

a male pos het dream means he MIGHT be het pied and he MIGHT be het lav. You'd have a ton of breeding to do to prove them out without a 100% dream female, or visual female, or a 100% het pied or visual pied, or a 100% het lav or visual lav. I'll be in a similar boat, my most recent show pick up is a 66% het joliff snow female (she was the offspring of two 100% het snow animals). One of the males im planning to get is a 100% het albino and het joliff axanathic so i can try to prove her out next year.

I'd do a little reading on genetics as well. Honestly, research is the best thing you can do. 100% hets bred to normals will make possible hets.

[ShiftyPowers4444]

Ah I see well thank you again this is why I wanted to ask about it all. I would have trouble housing them all but could do it with a rack system. No to answer your question about giving them away before their first meal or shed, I would not. I merely dont have room to house them for a year or life. If no one would buy them I know I could give them away to say a pet store or someone as long as they were semi-healthy. I dont mind, actually, I plan on losing money on the deal having to purchase a rack system and making an incubator with all the food I have to purchase and vermiculite, tubs, and a breeder female. I really just want to get experience in the matter so later when I actually have a collection I know what i'm doing when it counts.

[cinderbird]

Ah I see well thank you again this is why I wanted to ask about it all. I would have trouble housing them all but could do it with a rack system. No to answer your question about giving them away before their first meal or shed, I would not. I merely dont have room to house them for a year or life. If no one would buy them I know I could give them away to say a pet store or someone as long as they were semi-healthy. I dont mind, actually, I plan on losing money on the deal having to purchase a rack system and making an incubator with all the food I have to purchase and vermiculite, tubs, and a breeder female. I really just want to get experience in the matter so later when I actually have a collection I know what i'm doing when it counts.

BPs definitely aren't going anywhere. They will still be here in a few years when you're in a better living situation for the animals. I wanted my first snake when I was 10. I FINALLY got my first snake when I was 20. That was literally 10 years I had to research and find out exactly what I wanted. Its really only within the last 4 years that I became interested in morphs and breeding. But i still have my first snake. She's an educational animal and helps other people learn about ball pythons.

I wouldn't even recommend that you get your first snake now. I wont tell you to do something thats against your dorm rules. I know in my college dorms they SERIOUSLY had problems with people who disrespected the housing rules. (and i graduated college in May of this year). What happens to the animals if you get caught? Do you have a room mate? How do they feel about this? What about having frozen rodents in your freezer? What happens if a snake gets sick? What happens over breaks when they do room checks and cleaning? They often shut off POWER to the rooms to save on utility bills (i know my college did, and they made you clean out your freezers/fridges and open and unplug them).

To me, having pets in a dorm room that dosent allow them is a logistical nightmare, and the animals are the ones who end up suffering. Are you planning on living in the dorms next year? I got my first snake within months of moving out of college housing. I asked my house-mates and they were ok with it. I also had a freezer i used for food. When i moved into my own apartment, i could store feeders in the main freezer (because dorm freezers are SO bad for keeping stuff frozen).

Now, in my current living situation (a nightmare actually..) my land lord failed to disclose that i HAD snakes with me even though they are on my lease and they ALL have a problem with me storing feeders in the communal freezer. Now my animals are in my room only and i had to BUY a freezer (not such a bad thing) to store my feeders.

You lose a ton of money to start up a breeding venture. The amount of equipment you have to buy, etc. I couldnt even fit my stuff in a dorm room, and dont even ask about my room mates...

The only advice i can give you is to wait.

[ShiftyPowers4444]

The good thing is my dorm and college are pretty good about pets as long as they dont have feathers or fur. My RA and RD know about my snakes and some RAs actually have a few of their own. We have full sized fridges with freezers that work great. The only thing is we can't keep beer in them since it's a dry christian campus... Thats the only thing we really can't keep in the fridges to be honest. As long as they are clean when you check out they couldn't care less. I have a roommate who wants to steal my snake cause he likes it so much and is the most easy going guy i've ever met. After this year I will most likely have to move out of the dorms into my own appartment however this isn't for sure which is why I can't keep alllll the babies.

This is why I wanted to start this year and seem so urgent and impatient. I know I could wait but me being young and immature doesn't help my patients any. Particularly with snakes I know patients is key but I am still a teen what can I do lol.

I guess my best bet is to buy that male stud I've been looking at, bite my lip and wait till I have the propper room and respective space for the animals. sucks but you make very good points and after all it is about the animals rather than my satisfaction. Thanks you again though

[cinderbird]

The good thing is my dorm and college are pretty good about pets as long as they dont have feathers or fur. My RA and RD know about my snakes and some RAs actually have a few of their own. We have full sized fridges with freezers that work great. The only thing is we can't keep beer in them since it's a dry christian campus... Thats the only thing we really can't keep in the fridges to be honest. As long as they are clean when you check out they couldn't care less. I have a roommate who wants to steal my snake cause he likes it so much and is the most easy going guy i've ever met. After this year I will most likely have to move out of the dorms into my own appartment however this isn't for sure which is why I can't keep alllll the babies.

This is why I wanted to start this year and seem so urgent and impatient. I know I could wait but me being young and immature doesn't help my patients any. Particularly with snakes I know patients is key but I am still a teen what can I do lol.

I guess my best bet is to buy that male stud I've been looking at, bite my lip and wait till I have the propper room and respective space for the animals. sucks but you make very good points and after all it is about the animals rather than my satisfaction. Thanks you again though

Your college housing situation sounds a lot better than mine was then if the "rulers" of your housing situation are ok with what you're doing then the world is your oyster honestly.

Age has very little to do with this, I browse various forums but pretty much lurk on every forum that isn't this one and age is a poor guideline for judgment on pet ownership. I've seen 14 year olds that care for their animals better than a lot of 42 year olds. Its all about mindset and education (and money is also a factor).

There are a lot of affordable 09 morphs right now. I dont know what location you're in but there are shows everywhere. Even if your budget isn't that high (when i go to shows i have a max amount of money i'll spend at a show). Theres another thread i posted on where there are a ton of morphs available for about 300 depending on what you're looking for. I'd get a little female and raise her up. If you're raising her, she wont breed for a few years but when she's 1500 grams you'll have a nice girl for your projects.

I've found that buying 300-600 gram snakes is a good thing for me, the animal is established feeding and has some size on it but i have room to watch the animal grow and learn its personality (and every one of my snakes does have their own personalities). I've also gotten an unstarted baby and my most recent pick up is just under 1000 grams so it varies.

I wanted to try breeding this year for the first time but that won't be happening for me. On the other hand, all of my breeder sized females, or almost breeder sized females will have another year to gain weight and grow and have good body condition for the next year.

[ShiftyPowers4444]

Ya you and I sound like we are in very similar boats but you have more snakes it sounds like , i'm jealous.

Thats great though I guess now is more of a time to grow some youngins and slowly expand my collection in a responsible and affordable manner. Slowly is the key word which is my problem cause I want so many different snakes and to be able to breed them. I'll just have to be patient I guess, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders thanks for the wonderful advice for sharing your life experiences with me that's exactly what I was looking for so thanks again.

I live in georgia but I've only heard bad things about local expos, however I've yet to attend one. I was hoping to travel down to a florida expo at some point but again money is the main concern at the moment. Do you know of any decent expos in say SC, NC, TN, or AB?