My GOD! Do prices usually slice in half every year!!!!

[NorthernRegius]

...
Yes, I care about future customers. Any business person SHOULD. I care that they get healthy and well-bred animals, and that they come into owning ball pythons--whether as a pet, a hobby, or a business--knowing what to expect, with full knowledge and all the tools they need to be successful. I also don't want them to think that if they're considering making it a business--even a small hobby business--that they don't have a chance of success. Or that there is something wrong with them if they actually consider money.

When did making money turn into a BAD THING? I must have missed the memo on that.

A bad businessperson does not factor in routine expenses. They don't make a business plan. They don't care for the welfare of the animals beyond their monetary value. They plan no more than 1 year in advance.

A good businessperson sets aside a budget not only for routine cleaning and care, but also for veterinary expenses, extra food for any snakes that don't sell right away, and all the little bits and pieces that are necessary to keep snakes not just healthy but thriving. Because superior animals are going to bring a superior price--and, oh yeah--it's the right thing to do. Reputation is important, as well as how well you sleep at night.

So all this talk about business breeders not caring for the animals is complete bull pocky. If they're going to actually be around a while, they had darned well better care for each and every one of them. It's a stupid business to get into if you don't love the animals, and if people think you don't love them, you're not going to be successful at it.

"Mass producing" is the only way to breed reptiles and make a living at it. And there is nothing wrong with it at all. NERD and BHB certainly mass produce ball pythons. I don't see anyone faulting them for it, because they do it right. These aren't dogs or cats. The moment there are not other breeders waiting to buy them up, their prices will fall, and they'll enter into the pet trade. Most purebred Dogs and cats are in the pet trade from the moment they're born.

I quite enjoy your posts in this thread! I'm 10 years in & I believe we're just getting started.

I believe you are spot on about this!

We got people selling who don't quarantine properly or who kill healthy snakes, while the rest of us will survive beyond their brief time, folks NEED to vote with their dollars. They need to be okay with paying a tad more for a superior example of a morph & producers need to feel they can ask what an animal is worth. So while I agree that eventually this area will correct itself, it will require the buyer to care where they get their animals.

IMHO there's room for both Mass & Selective producers. Selective breeding is ultimately about smaller numbers. I could have bred every breeder female that I had last season, but I only bred under half that why? Not just the economy, because of the quality of the offspring. The project has to match the snake. Some pairings are just better than others. For those that "mass-produce" they are more likely to get graded results, IMHO go smaller with best examples of the morphs that you can get & it will show in the offspring. I not only care about doing the best by my animals, I care about improving the the morphs if I can. It drives my choices, it narrows my producion... I do hope it will also one day be something I will be known for.

[rabernet]

"Mass producing" is the only way to breed reptiles and make a living at it. And there is nothing wrong with it at all. NERD and BHB certainly mass produce ball pythons. I don't see anyone faulting them for it, because they do it right. These aren't dogs or cats. The moment there are not other breeders waiting to buy them up, their prices will fall, and they'll enter into the pet trade. Most purebred Dogs and cats are in the pet trade from the moment they're born.

I read people writing about mass producing, and I'd like someone to define what they consider mass producing. I've been to NERD 2 x now, for a full week each time, helped out with cleaning and feeding of snakes, cleaning and feeding of rats.

I don't consider Kevin a mass producer by any stretch of the imagination. His incubator sits in his living room - he doesn't have a walk in incubator. It's a little wider than a full sized refrigerator. He has one room of breeders, that's not huge.

Kevin is one of the "big breeders" who is truly a hobbiest at heart. You can see the excitement and joy and twinkle in his eye when he talks about his animals and his pet projects.

I'd say that Kevin is more into pushing the envelope in the endless combo possibilities, not into mass producing a bunch of base morphs.

I've never been to Brian's, but I've seen his videos (hasn't everyone) and as far as volume of animals, he's HUGE compared to NERD's collection. BUT, Brian is just as passionate about his animals. Anyone who has ever taken time to talk to him on the phone or in person can hear his love OOZING out of him.

I agree with what WingedWolf said - why is making money at something you love considered a bad thing? If someone was in love with surfing, started a surf shop that went on to make millions, are they less in love with surfing? Have they "sold out" on their love of surfing? Why is with breeding reptiles, some people feel that they're not in it for the love of the animals? Yes, there certainly are some people in this industry that see the animals only as a commodity (see the culling thread above), but not all.

I'll never make a living at doing this, it's HARD work - it's a 7 day a week job, with no time off. But if I can make a little money to help fund and support my hobby and help me to acquire more animals that I'd like to have, then it's a win for me. But I will NOT disrespect the larger breeders who put in the blood, sweat and tears to get this hobby and excitement level to where it is today by suggesting that they don't love what they're doing, when in my limited interactions with them, I've found the opposite to be true.

Love what you do, and you'll never work a day in your life. Kudos to them for doing JUST that!

[JenEric Reptiles]

Oh, please. Get over the Either/Or mindset. I love reptiles. I chose to turn it into a business, and as a business it's going to make $$$, or it would be a failure. There is nothing wrong with breeding reptiles as a business. It doesn't have to be 'just a hobby' and breeding snakes for ONLY the fun of it doesn't make a person morally superior. A person isn't automatically consigned to the ranks of uncaring user if they are running a business to make money.

Yes, I care about future customers. Any business person SHOULD. I care that they get healthy and well-bred animals, and that they come into owning ball pythons--whether as a pet, a hobby, or a business--knowing what to expect, with full knowledge and all the tools they need to be successful. I also don't want them to think that if they're considering making it a business--even a small hobby business--that they don't have a chance of success. Or that there is something wrong with them if they actually consider money.

When did making money turn into a BAD THING? I must have missed the memo on that.

A bad businessperson does not factor in routine expenses. They don't make a business plan. They don't care for the welfare of the animals beyond their monetary value. They plan no more than 1 year in advance.

A good businessperson sets aside a budget not only for routine cleaning and care, but also for veterinary expenses, extra food for any snakes that don't sell right away, and all the little bits and pieces that are necessary to keep snakes not just healthy but thriving. Because superior animals are going to bring a superior price--and, oh yeah--it's the right thing to do. Reputation is important, as well as how well you sleep at night.

So all this talk about business breeders not caring for the animals is complete bull pocky. If they're going to actually be around a while, they had darned well better care for each and every one of them. It's a stupid business to get into if you don't love the animals, and if people think you don't love them, you're not going to be successful at it.

"Mass producing" is the only way to breed reptiles and make a living at it. And there is nothing wrong with it at all. NERD and BHB certainly mass produce ball pythons. I don't see anyone faulting them for it, because they do it right. These aren't dogs or cats. The moment there are not other breeders waiting to buy them up, their prices will fall, and they'll enter into the pet trade. Most purebred Dogs and cats are in the pet trade from the moment they're born.

Apperantly you are getting offened by something...............im am talking about people JUMPING into this with ZERO knowledge spending THOUSANDS OF $$$$$ and then dumping the animals when they find out its not for them.....IM talking bout people who buy a low quality animals and breeding it to 10 female normals and produce multiple low quality animals.and dump them for cheap cause they cannot properly house them........ ie

UNLESS THIS IS YOU...dont get offended.............

NERD AND BHB produce on large quantities and have THE KNOWLEDGE AND FACILITY to care for them.........not dump the animals at lower prices..........cause they have the room to properly care for them.......

i never said any bad about it being a business.........i respect i good business person and also hobbiest and small and big breeder.........

so dont go putting words in my mouth.......

[JenEric Reptiles]

I read people writing about mass producing, and I'd like someone to define what they consider mass producing. I've been to NERD 2 x now, for a full week each time, helped out with cleaning and feeding of snakes, cleaning and feeding of rats.


I agree with what WingedWolf said - why is making money at something you love considered a bad thing? If someone was in love with surfing, started a surf shop that went on to make millions, are they less in love with surfing? Have they "sold out" on their love of surfing? Why is with breeding reptiles, some people feel that they're not in it for the love of the animals? Yes, there certainly are some people in this industry that see the animals only as a commodity (see the culling thread above), but not all.


Love what you do, and you'll never work a day in your life. Kudos to them for doing JUST that!

when did i say making money is a bad thing??????????

i said if you can go for it!!!!!!!!!

you guys need to stop twisting around what i say..............................

[JenEric Reptiles]

im done good luck everyone this season!!!!!!!!

[Oxylepy]

The people that irk me are the ones that care less about their hobby and more about making money or just making the money to pay for the hobby itself. These are the individuals most likely to drop the prices first (out of desperation), while the people who really care about the hobby can stand to wait a year or even more before seeing their snake sold. It's not that making the money is bad, it's just that caring more about your profits and less about the hobby CAN turn out bad (not will, but can).

But that's just my views. And why is this becoming a price debate, I thought this topic started out as asking if the price drops this much every year and thus discussing the prices in the past and current prices.

If you want to rant about the price drops there was a topic last week about that very thing, and it went off topic after emotions started to run high and a handful of us decided to drag the topic elsewhere before we had e-violence. Which is the problem with topics about price, everyone has their opinions on it and everyone seems to want to throw people with differing views in a volcano.

[rabernet]

when did i say making money is a bad thing??????????

i said if you can go for it!!!!!!!!!

you guys need to stop twisting around what i say..............................

Did I quote you? How did I possibly twist what you said when I wasn't even addressing you?

[JenEric Reptiles]

Did I quote you? How did I possibly twist what you said when I wasn't even addressing you?

sorry wrong person im done with this thread!.........have a nice day

[Mike Schultz]

Morph prices are going down... time to start producing the combo morphs, that's where the money will be in the coming years!

As fewer new morphs are being introduced everybody will be springing for the new triple and quadruple gene animals as these are what differentiate a nice breeding collection from an awesome one.

A person with 30-50 multi gene carriers can make a lot more money than somebody with 100 pastels

[JenEric Reptiles]

Morph prices are going down... time to start producing the combo morphs, that's where the money will be in the coming years!

As fewer new morphs are being introduced everybody will be springing for the new triple and quadruple gene animals as these are what differentiate a nice breeding collection from an awesome one.

A person with 30-50 multi gene carriers can make a lot more money than somebody with 100 pastels

i agree