Put it down already

[Fallguy]

I feel the same. I think that after so much trying, you should be able to tell if the animal will be ok. We should all remember that we are in this for the animals, and we should do right by them.

[wilomn]

You FREEZE your babies?

You're an evil evil man.

Old Indians will haunt your dreams.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

You FREEZE your babies?

You're an evil evil man.

Old Indians will haunt your dreams.

LOL!

When you get a chance Wes I would really be interested to hear your opinion on this subject.....

[wilomn]

I put them down. If it's kinked, not just bent a little, in the freezer. Same for any serious deformity, head, eyes, whatever. Fortunately it is rare, but I've been doing it long enough that I've seen a lot.

If it can't eat on it's own, drink by itself, move from warm to cold, it's culled.

Oh, by the way, going off the title of this thread, I was expecting something more along the lines of a Just say No thread.

[Bundu Boy]

A question that I would ask myself is

"Would it survive in the wild?"

If the answer is no then it is a candidate for euthanasia....

[blackcrystal22]

If its clearly not going to live normally, eat normally, or defecate normally, then yes, I will put it down.

I agree with you Mike. Hatchlings with such a low life quality should not be forced to live.

[mason]

100% agree.

I also this the practice (that's getting more widespread) of egg cutting isn't right.

Getting out of the egg is part of the animals natural development process, it helps provide them with strength they will need further down the line.

Now even newbie breeders think egg cutting, purely to find out whats in there, is perfectly normal. Sometimes I think people completely lose sight of the fact that breeding animals is you being allowed to participate and observe a natural process. They really do just see their animals as egg machines

I remember seeing pictures of a very, very well respected US breeders collection some years back (probably circa '99-00). one of his spiders was a corkscrewing trainwreck, his breeder male caramel albino was kinked like a golf club, I wonder what effect we'll see another 10 years down the line in this hobby from irresponsible practices and breeding.

[Hock3ymonk3y]

A question that I would ask myself is

"Would it survive in the wild?"

If the answer is no then it is a candidate for euthanasia....

An albino would probably not live in the wild..... choose your words more carefully.

I totally agree with you mike, some babies were not meant to live...

[jglass38]

An albino would probably not live in the wild..... choose your words more carefully.

I'm pretty sure you know what he meant. He meant a defect or deformity that would keep it from being able to successfully survive in the wild.

[bad-one]

I don't breed snakes yet but within 2-3 years I will be.

I having nothing against culling animals when neccesary. If I end up ever producing an animal that simply doesn't thrive and has no "will" to do so it will end up in my fridge and then my freezer (and I'll probably cry like a baby when I do it).

As for selling animals with obvious defects (one eye, no eyes, minor- severe kinks) it is a very poor practice indeed. Even worse is they are offered cheaper making it convenient for irresponsible breeders to buy. I believe animals like this should either go to a good friend who wouldn't breed it, be kept, or be put down. By selling animals like this you are only risking it being bred by someone.

Spiders are an interesting one. Imho, a bit of wobbling/tweaked behavior is to be expected but I would never breed a spider who consistently shows me extreme wobbling, corkscrewing, spinning.

On a side note- I see nothing wrong with cutting eggs once one has pipped. The snake's will come out when they are ready on their terms.

I cut when I feel like it's safe to cut. Normally that is day 50-52 or so. I make a small flap in the egg. I get to satisfy my curiosity by seeing what is inside. I then put the eggs back in the incubator. Around day 56 or so I cut a larger opening. I haven't noticed anything drying out or babies that are small or dehydrated. All of them eat and shed normally. If I had concerns, I wouldn't do it. Cutting an egg correctly is not going to keep the animal from absorbing any nutrients. Trying to reposition an animal in the egg to see pattern or color or generally messing with it could cause problems. I think everyone should do whatever they feel comfortable with. If that means waiting until the first one pips, that is great. If it means cutting at day 48, that is cool too. I certainly wouldn't condemn someone for doing it. Where I draw the line is cutting and forcibly removing a hatchling from the egg before it's ready. If my egg cutting makes me a bad guy in someone's book then I believe they haven't looked around enough or read enough threads and seen what a real bad guy looks like. Someone who sends sick or poorly packaged animals. Someone that sends empty boxes or completely scams someone out of animals or money. Those are the bad guys in this hobby, not someone who cuts an egg before an arbitrary day, whether it's 54, 56, 58 or 60.

I agree 100%!