Breeder, Flipper, Worser, Better?

[wilomn]

Is one worse than the other? Are either inherently bad?

A flipper buys snakes and resells them without, often but not always, knowing to whom they are sold or what happens to them.

A breeder keeps snakes, maintains them, puts them together to encourage them to procreate and then sells the babies without, often but not always, knowing to whom they are sold or what happens to them.

One the one hand you've got a person purchasing a commodity and reselling it at profit. This person does not have anything to do with the creation of said commodity, they have no moral or ethical obligation to said commodity regaurding it's creation, though they do for it's keeping once ownership has vested in them, the reseller.

To the left, you have the person who IS responsible for the creation of said commodity, in this case baby ball pythons, and yet they, the breeder, are not held in any way, responsible for the eventual living situation of the baby snakes they have sold who would not be alive at all were not humans involved.

Both sell baby snakes. One is just a flipper. One is just a breeder. Both sell baby living creatures. One actually creates these creatures, one buys and sells them.

Heh. See what happens? You start thinking, then you go to wondering and then you hit a wall, throw up your hands and wonder why you wonder at all?

I don't know that there IS a correct answer.

[GoFride]

Flippers seem to have only one motivation - profit. Breeders tend to be more interested in the animals first, money afterward. As you stated yourself, breeders maintain the animals. That means caring for and about them.

[wilomn]

Flippers seem to have only one motivation - profit. Breeders tend to be more interested in the animals first, money afterward. As you stated yourself, breeders maintain the animals. That means caring for and about them.

Yet, would not a primary motivation of a breeder be to produce that which is sold? And if that is true, how is that different from a flipper? Both are selling babies. One has produced them, one has not. Is the origin so important?

[jglass38]

Good thread, Wes. I am going to have to go back to the honesty thing. I also would prefer to purchase from someone I believe selectively bred their animals and put real care into producing a quality snake.

I'll throw another piece into the mix. What about the person who wholesales to the reseller? Where do they fit in this discussion?

[GoFride]

Stop making me think hard - ouch! Yes, I believe a breeder would tend to care more about placing those precious babies in new homes, and would feel more responsible. To most breeders, these are not commodities or products.

[wilomn]

Stop making me think hard - ouch! Yes, I believe a breeder would tend to care more about placing those precious babies in new homes, and would feel more responsible. To most breeders, these are not commodities or products.

How many breeders do you suppose have a check list that buyers must pass before allowing them to purchase a baby?

I'm guessing that most breeders sell to anyone who pony's up the dough. If you're a breeder who IS selective about who they sell to, this isn't meant as an insult. In fact, it's not meant for anyone in particular.

I'm thinking most folks can figure it out when it's them in particular I'm referring to when I'm referring to anyone in particular at all.

[PythonWallace]

Yet, would not a primary motivation of a breeder be to produce that which is sold? And if that is true, how is that different from a flipper? Both are selling babies. One has produced them, one has not. Is the origin so important?

My primary motivations are to: first, breed the combos I want to have more than anything else in life, and second, to produce enough babies that I don't want to keep back, to sell to pay for my breeders' food, and if I'm lucky, to buy new breeders that will get me closer to being able to produce some of those combos I dream about. When I sell babies (always after 4-5 consecutive meals), I always go back and forth with emails asking about the potential purchaser's plans, setup, time in this hobby, etc., so I do know who each snake is going to. But I know that that isn't what you are talking about, and it's probably not a very common thing.

[jglass38]

How many breeders do you suppose have a check list that buyers must pass before allowing them to purchase a baby?

I'm guessing that most breeders sell to anyone who pony's up the dough. If you're a breeder who IS selective about who they sell to, this isn't meant as an insult. In fact, it's not meant for anyone in particular.

I'm thinking most folks can figure it out when it's them in particular I'm referring to when I'm referring to anyone in particular at all.

I think the answer is not a lot. I happen to be one who does (well not really a checklist). It doesn't make me any better than the other guy, but it helps me sleep better at night. I have turned down sales because I wasn't comfortable with the person wanting to buy.

[Freakie_frog]

Wow ok I have to agree with Jamie I think that there is a right way and a wrong way to do the resale thing.

With that said resale of CBB babies on the whole sale market, when done with honesty and the same care as one would an animal they bred OK.

Wholesaleing CH or WC stuff and labeling it as Fire(ish) or Mojave-like is in my not someone I will do business with..

[waltah!]

I don't have a problem with someone selling a snake that they didn't produce. I have plenty of snakes that I didn't produce that may one day be sold. My only concern with certain folks is that they sell snakes that they have no history on without knowing the seller. There's a thread here where a member shipped her animals to someone on a trade and he listed each animal on CL the next day. That guy is a dirtbag IMO and the "bad" kind of flipper.
Large "flippers" sometimes have a QT period and have the ability to administer medicines as needed. I don't have an issue with them as long as they are honest about it. Almost nothing bugs me as much as someone who claims to produce those animals that just showed up on a FEDEX truck the day before.
I also agree with Ed about the folks who list their fire"ish" normals...almost as much as those listed as "pastel siblings".