I Attended the HR2811 Hearing on July 29th

[wolfy-hound]

Well you ARE entitled to your opinion. But according to your reasoning, the HR669 proposal was correct,since 90% of animals could live for at least a short period of time outside.

So to prevent any of the other 'exotics' from escaping, the pet trade shoudl cease to exist right now. No birds, because most can survive in south florida and other more warm areas. Since rats can survive nearly everywhere, most of the rodent pets probably could(or fake it good enough to pass the nonscientific tests), cats and dogs definitely out, rabbits definitely out, etc.

Just because burms are kept in the pet trade, doesn't mean that the people resonsibily keeping thier burms are at fault for the everglades burms.

Plus, I'd like to see even one piece of difinitive proof of a burmese in the everglades being a escaped(or loosed) pet. A microchip(required in florida for the past couple years), or even a burn scar from a heat rock or lamp.
Anything?

Because if you will accept the idea that all the burms are escaped pets, without any proof, then I could say my Congressman came to my house and stole my lizard. Proof? I don't need proof. After all, ya'll are passing a law without any proof. Why should I have to have to produce any?

Drunk drivers killed a large number of people yesterday. Do you drive a car? You're at fault. Pony up the money and time in jail. By the way, we're not going to let you drive ever again, because Joe Trash just killed Little Suzie after downing a gallon of booze and running her over. What? He had a car, and a car caused the death. You have a car, so you're at fault too.

Same logic.

[dkwalton]

I am all for personal property rights and the "pursuit of hapiness" as mentioned earlier...unless the pursuit impinges on someone else. Out of curiosity...if any limitation on owning, selling or importing burms is not the answer then what is?

[Adam_Wysocki]

Whether it's a hurricane or not, the burmese pythons "escaped" because they were already in captivity in Florida.

That is your justification for punishing responsible burmese python owners in Nebraska, Oregon, and Vermont (as well as all over the country)? Some of whom have never even been to Florida? All of whom keep their animals responsibly and safely. Many of whom have had some of those animals for decades?

The only answer is to take it all away?

I'm sorry, I just can't accept that. This is the United States of America ... there are tons of brilliant people here ... the absolute best we can do for the good people that will be hurt the most by HR 2811 is say "too bad for you about those burms in the glades"?

No matter who or what started the problem, these aren't nuclear weapons we're talking about ... they're pets. They're animals that people care about ... animals that people have raised and loved ... animals that people have bonded with.

How is it ever OK for a government to take that away from it's citizens?

There has to be a better way.

-adam

[DutchHerp]

That is your justification for punishing responsible burmese python owners in Nebraska, Oregon, and Vermont (as well as all over the country)? Some of whom have never even been to Florida? All of whom keep their animals responsibly and safely. Many of whom have had some of those animals for decades?

The only answer is to take it all away?

I'm sorry, I just can't accept that. This is the United States of America ... there are tons of brilliant people here ... the absolute best we can do for the good people that will be hurt the most by HR 2811 is say "too bad for you about those burms in the glades"?

No matter who or what started the problem, these aren't nuclear weapons we're talking about ... they're pets. They're animals that people care about ... animals that people have raised and loved ... animals that people have bonded with.

How is it ever OK for a government to take that away from it's citizens?

There has to be a better way.

-adam

Adam, please, read my first post... I want them banned in Florida (and maybe Georgia)... I completely agree with it being dumb in any other states apart from maybe Louisiana and TX, although they get freezing temperatures.

[Adam_Wysocki]

I am all for personal property rights and the "pursuit of hapiness" as mentioned earlier...unless the pursuit impinges on someone else. Out of curiosity...if any limitation on owning, selling or importing burms is not the answer then what is?

I think Florida is on the right track with micro chipping, secure enclosures, and licensing ... all of which prevent impulse buying that could result in irresponsible releases and allow responsible owners to continue doing what they've always done.

I think that the other side to that coin is serious scientific surveys of the burmese pythons in the Everglades (I've heard numbers everywhere from 10,000 - 250,000 ... they have to be just guessing at this point) ... trap programs ... and grant programs for open admission, licensed, giant snake rescues.

In my opinion, each state should be able to determine what is best for it's own citizens and the ecosystems within that particular state.

-adam

[Muze]

Adam, please, read my first post... I want them banned in Florida (and maybe Georgia)... I completely agree with it being dumb in any other states apart from maybe Louisiana and TX, although they get freezing temperatures.

So I suppose the logic is that if the snakes are kept in a climate that is uninhabitable should they escape, then it is ok to own them in that specific region. Am I correct? However, if this is indeed the logic, then we should ban all non-native species that would be able to thrive in a particular environment (reptiles from tropical areas, for example, should be banned in Florida) if/when they escape.

[DutchHerp]

So I suppose the logic is that if the snakes are kept in a climate that is uninhabitable should they escape, then it is ok to own them in that specific region. Am I correct?

Correct

However, if this is indeed the logic, then we should ban all non-native species that would be able to thrive in a particular environment (reptiles from tropical areas, for example, should be banned in Florida) if/when they escape.

Ideally, yes.

Later, Matt

[Brewster320]

Correct



Ideally, yes.

Later, Matt

Ok, then you have to give away your ball pythons and your carpet python. There is a slight chance they could thrive down there in Texas. So you have to give them to people like me who live up where its nice and cold. And I'll send you my firebelly toad, its nice, cool, and humid up here so if he escaped he could cause huge problems, if he escaped in Texas he'd surely dry up so you can have him.

Seriously?!

[DutchHerp]

Texas got freezing temperatures this year; snow actually. If there was viable scientific evidence my pythons could cause ecological problems, then yes, I would relocate them.

[Mendel's Balls]

Texas got freezing temperatures this year; snow actually. If there was viable scientific evidence my pythons could cause ecological problems, then yes, I would relocate them.

Where is the scientific evidence that points to the Florida Burmese populations causing a net ecological and/or economic loss? Point me to that peer-reviewed scientific paper please.

If you cant produce one, your assuming guilt before innocence.....seems like that rule then should apply to you and your animals as well then.

Furthermore, as Adam said this is a state issue...why are the feds pushing this? Florida Wildlife officials were are dealing with the issue.

There is no evidence that populations exist in any other states or will exist in any other southern states with global climate changes models.