Blood/Burm?

[bloodpython_MA]

I'm not strong against hybrids, but not strong for them either.
I think if they are labeled correctly and sold to people as WHAT THEY ARE (crosses) there wont be muddling. But if you just sell them to inexperienced people whho will cross them back and sell them solely as one species or another, it could mess up the lines that have been worked on.

either way, they can look pretty cool.

[Brewster320]

I would never buy from someone that makes hybrids snakes just to do it, because there is no other reason to do it than just for giggles.

A lot of serious people who breed hybrids do it for giggles. A lot of them do it for the same reason people dinker with odd looking snakes, to see if something interesting comes out from this cross. I do agree some people do breed animal "A" with animal "B" just for the heck of it but a lot of people carefully pick what species or even certain animals from a species witha sertain trait they want to cross, what look they are going for, temperment, and what colors and pattern they want. And once someone find a cross that looks nice other people like it and try to produce more of them. Its a lot more like breeding for morphs than people think.

[littleindiangirl]

It's nothing like breeding morphs.... Morphs occur naturally in the wild, we are working with animals we got from the wild. I dont understand how you can even compare two completely different things.

And yes, I wont buy from someone that purposely does random reptile hybrids. What you just describe IS only for giggles. Maybe they dont necessarily "giggle" while doing it, but I do not find the reasons for making reptile hybrids good enough to do it.

What does it serve other than to tickle humans fancy, "oh, look its pretty. I made a hybrid just to see if I can." You can't control what traits the animal takes from one animal, not unless you got some lab set up for gene splicing. And then, why???

Yea, what a great job, mucking up captive populations blood lines to make something useless to people who dont want a bunch of mucked up animals in the future and just want a blood python. Way to go.

And for people who say they will just ID it as a hybrid is not taking into consideration the forgetfulness, sliminess, and downright lying people will do. Neither can someone control the offspring from a hybrid breeding, can they control the hybrids offspring it could possibly have later down the line as they are passed or sold on to other people.

[Brewster320]

It's nothing like breeding morphs.... Morphs occur naturally in the wild, we are working with animals we got from the wild. I dont understand how you can even compare two completely different things.

And yes, I wont buy from someone that purposely does random reptile hybrids. What you just describe IS only for giggles. Maybe they dont necessarily "giggle" while doing it, but I do not find the reasons for making reptile hybrids good enough to do it.

What does it serve other than to tickle humans fancy, "oh, look its pretty. I made a hybrid just to see if I can." You can't control what traits the animal takes from one animal, not unless you got some lab set up for gene splicing. And then, why???

Yea, what a great job, mucking up captive populations blood lines to make something useless to people who dont want a bunch of mucked up animals in the future and just want a blood python. Way to go.

And for people who say they will just ID it as a hybrid is not taking into consideration the forgetfulness, sliminess, and downright lying people will do. Neither can someone control the offspring from a hybrid breeding, can they control the hybrids offspring it could possibly have later down the line as they are passed or sold on to other people.

Yes morphs happen in the wild. Do they survive? Normally not. Hybrids also happen in the wild. sure some we doo in captivity are impossuble in the wild but hybrids do happen, and more often then one might think.

Also peopel can be irresponsible with morphs. At first one might be confused by this statement but its incredibly true. Some one might produce animals that are are 66% or 33% het. something and when they seel the animal they might forget to mention, don't know about it, or not bother to mention it all. Now some people might be happy to find a hidden in there snakes, but for some one who has spent a lot of money and time on a project just to a hidden het. ruin it definately wouldn't be happy about the hidden het.

the best example I can think of is in leopard geckos there are 3 different uncompatible strains of albino. Some irresponsible people will mix the lines and when people put them into project they don't know for sure which albino is which an ect. so people can be just a irresponsible with morphs as with hybrids.

[littleindiangirl]

I can't think of ANY threads that are genuinly complaining because someone found out their BP's were het. It might be a problem in the leo world, but ANY proving of hets in the snake world is not a common thing to complain about.

Regardless, a lot of people sell 33 and 66 hets as normals. Are you venturing that they are being irresponsible, because the animal has a small chance at being het? Why not try and make a thread about that, see what sort of replies you get.

And back to the morphs in the wild. Where do you get an idea that our morphs brought in from Africa aren't surviving in the wild? How does that make sense in the evolutionary sense? If the morphs we're weak genes, could it not be argued that they would die out on their own, instead of being caught in the wild by humans? Cinnies, lessers, platty daddyes, pastels, ghosts, yellow bellies, spiders, toffee.... all brought in as adult animals I do believe, and people said, "Hey, lets see if this is genetic."

Let me know when you have data to back up no morphs being found and brought in from the wild. I'm sure there are importers who would like to know.

[littleindiangirl]

As to the hybrids in the wild, I am not arguing nature here, but against humans crossing species that would not interbreed in the wild. Let me make that clear for you.

Many milks and kings interbreed, they are done in captivity too. Rats and corns, other colubrids etc... if it does it in the wild, where do I have a leg to stand on?

I am against people crossing reptile species for no reason other than to see what happens, or just to do it for giggles. Do you not get that? Lets keep this thread on track.

[mainbutter]

now that we "know what happens" when someone crosses burms with ball pythons, would you be against someone wishing to have one of these creatures, because they are enamoured with them?

[Brewster320]

I can't think of ANY threads that are genuinly complaining because someone found out their BP's were het. It might be a problem in the leo world, but ANY proving of hets in the snake world is not a common thing to complain about.

Regardless, a lot of people sell 33 and 66 hets as normals. Are you venturing that they are being irresponsible, because the animal has a small chance at being het? Why not try and make a thread about that, see what sort of replies you get.

And back to the morphs in the wild. Where do you get an idea that our morphs brought in from Africa aren't surviving in the wild? How does that make sense in the evolutionary sense? If the morphs we're weak genes, could it not be argued that they would die out on their own, instead of being caught in the wild by humans? Cinnies, lessers, platty daddyes, pastels, ghosts, yellow bellies, spiders, toffee.... all brought in as adult animals I do believe, and people said, "Hey, lets see if this is genetic."

Let me know when you have data to back up no morphs being found and brought in from the wild. I'm sure there are importers who would like to know.

Its a fact morphs usually don't survive in the wild. there are those lucky few that do much the most don't. I mean do you walk out side an see albino animals every where? Its not that common. We are just lucky enough that some people find a few of those lucky animals.

Also in the snake world people do complain about hidden hets. if your working on a project and your expecting to hopefully get a certain percentage of one thing. You throw a new het. into the mix and its mess up everything. For example if your working on a project and it has taken years to raise the animals, breed them, feed them, house them and are working one a certain morph. Well your expecting to have say 12.5% chance of getting that special snake your working for. Well you discover that your snakes actually have a hidden het. in them and now your only have 6.5% of getting your snake. Thats how a hidden het. can ruin a project.

[Brewster320]

I am against people crossing reptile species for no reason other than to see what happens, or just to do it for giggles. Do you not get that? Lets keep this thread on track.

Why would you mix morph A with morph B? Just to see what happens. To see what weird, beautiful, or unusal looking snake you get. Its basicly the same thing.

[littleindiangirl]

"Snake morphs came from the wild, but that doesn't mean they actually live and breathe in the wild..."

How is it a fact that snake morphs don't survive in the wild? Care to back that up with a shred of evidence? Just because we don't see albino morphs running in down town Manhattan, does not mean that because one morph is not rampant, that it somehow proves your argument that no morphs exist in the wild. Just the finding of the morphs in the wild... means you are wrong.

Considering a lot of ball python morphs are expressed as hets, they are more likely to be passed from one breeding. If all the little pastels we're eaten right out of the egg, the line would stop there. Pastel is not a recessive genetic trait, there are no 'normal looking carriers' for the co-dom morphs, and even then, some of the recessive traits were brought in as homozygous animals.


They do indeed survive in the wild today. Proof? Ask the importers how many morphs still come from the wild that we already know of.

And I have to highly disagree. Breeding snake morphs, which is the crossing of the same species, is far different than crossing different species. Its a paint job we are swapping out. Not the same as trying to match up two unrelated animals from vastly different parts of the world.

If you can't get that little, but very important difference, we might as well just leave it at that.