Switching from mouse to rat

[RangerMom]

I am fairly new to bp but not to new to snakes. Ive had Ranger for almost a year now, and have learned what, where, and when he likes to eat.

I have learned he will only eat in his viv. At first he would only eat male mice, I have since gotten him to eat female mice as well.

He seems to love to "hunt" his prey in his viv and has a great feeding response. He eats great, but only eats mice. He is and has been at the size i could offer hopper to small rats. But he smells them and ignores them.

The only mice I can find around my area (within a fourty five min drive) are very small. Pretty much all I can get are weanling size. He wont take f/t, so I get the weanlings. I get enough to try breeding but by the time they are that size... they are the meal.

So today I got smart..lol.. I got a small rat(of the size he could eat) and kept it with my mice. Made sure it was good and mousey smelling. I offered this to Ranger and he struck..coil... dead rat... and thats what he thought.. dead rat.. he did not eat it... just ignored it..

Sorry this is so long, but am I going about this right? That is if i can get him to switch. Mice are getting expensive at three at a time.. I would love to just give him one appropriate sized rat.

Any thoughts? suggestions?

[WingedWolfPsion]

My best advice is patience. If he constricts but then ignores the rat, give him his mouse, and then try another mouse-scented rat again next week. It can be quite a hassle, and seem like a waste, but some snakes are very reluctant to change--the fact he was willing to strike and constrict the rat is a good sign. Try to offer a baby rat the same size as a mouse--this will seem less intimidating and more familiar to him. It may take a few tries, but eventually, he will eat it. I personally feel it is important that he get his meal regardless--it's positive reinforcement associated with the presence of the rat, even if he doesn't eat the rat itself.
Once he accepts and eats a mouse-scented rat a couple of times, reduce the scent--just give it a quick rub in mouse bedding. If he has no problems with that, only then offer one that is unscented. Once he takes an unscented rat, you will most likely have no further issues, and can start increasing the size of the rats.

Note that some ball pythons are just that finicky, and will try a new food, and then stubbornly hold out for the old! I have a few balls that insist on switching between rats and mice--they will take rats sometimes...but not every time. Others will take F/T only occasionally, and insist on live half the time. I have had best luck in getting a ball to eat what I want when it's been eating at least something on a regular, consistant schedule.

For some, it's just a matter of learning that the food you are offering is actually desireable prey...but personalities and preferences vary, and there will always be a minority of snakes that will try the new food item, and decide that they simply don't LIKE it.

[frankykeno]

I would skip his next two meals. Get him good and hungry (and not this will not harm a healthy snake). Make sure that anything mouse smelling is removed from the area or washed thoroughly - get rid of the mouse smell completely.

After a couple of weeks of him waiting around to eat offer him a crawler aka fuzzy rat. You may need to locate someone who breeds feeder rats to get that size. This is the stage when they are fully furred but their eyes are not quite open yet.

Put the rat in a secure but well ventilated container. Set this container right above the snake on the lid of his enclosure. Walk away. Let the rat move around, let the snake wonder what is making that vibration and smelling so darned interesting. After an hour or so put the fuzzy rat in his enclosure in the evening hours and then walk away. Check a few hours later or in the morning. This stage of live prey is safe to leave overnight as they have little to no erupted teeth yet. If he takes this prey wait another week, offer him another crawler and if he immediately goes for it, as soon as he's swallowed that one, offer a second rat crawler.

Assuming he eats both crawlers that week, the next week move up to a rat pup (do not leave this one overnight, their teeth are sharp by this stage) and then slowly up in size until you reach the size you wish to be feeding him. Remember to go slow, changing prey type is sometimes hard enough to deal with for these snakes, a huge jump in prey size as well is even more off putting to them. You can do multiple prey items (rat crawlers or pups) if you need to as you slowly step up to achieve the total prey volume you want per week/month.

I've tried to switch snakes using the prey scent switching and never had a bit of luck with it. Using this tough love approach has worked for me. Some of them are stubborn and will go a few weeks but all of mine eventually switched over. Of course, this always assumes the snake is in good health and well fleshed so that skipping a few feeds will do no harm.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Conversely, I never had luck trying to wait a ball python out...they don't seem to care if they miss a few meals. It's odd how different techniques work (or don't work) for different people.

[Vypyrz]

Conversely, I never had luck trying to wait a ball python out...they don't seem to care if they miss a few meals. It's odd how different techniques work (or don't work) for different people.

Ain't that the truth. I'm trying to get one of mine switched to F/T. He will take anything live. I've tried all the tricks but no luck and I usually end up giving him something live. But no more. The waiting game has begun. He is into the 35-45g rat size now and those little buggers are ferocious. Most of the time they don't even notice the snake because they are trying to chew through the feed tongs. Then once he bites and constricts I have to pin down the rats head under the chin so they won't bite. That is just too much hassle, especially since my other one takes F/T no problem. I know snakes are not dogs but to quote Cesar Milan, " I am the pack leader. I'm not being agressive. I'm being dominant" Good luck getting your guy switched over...


Rob

[h00blah]

I know snakes are not dogs but to quote Cesar Milan, " I am the pack leader. I'm not being agressive. I'm being dominant"

LOLLLLL

[RangerMom]

Thank you all for your replys.

Ive tried the wait it out game, and he still didnt care about the rat.. scenting it has been the only way so far that he has looked at a rat as food.

I did give him his normal mouse portions after he didnt eat the rat and he gave me a look as to say "about time"..

[RangerMom]

OH.. how do I go about finding a rat breeder?

[frankykeno]

You could post a request for a rat breeder in your area under business forums here.

You could ask around about any local reptile shows in your area or within a reasonable driving distance.

You could put up a note at a local pet store (most provide a bulletin board for this sort of thing).

You could put a note up at a feed/tack/farmers supply type store on their bulletin board.

You could look for a privately owned pet store that may breed their own rodent stock in the back.

[RangerMom]

thank you for your quick response.

As for reptile shows they are 2.5 to 3 hours away, so Ive only been to one

I know my local pet shop doesnt breed his own, he is a cranky ol' man that is now only in the buisness for the money.. but he does have a bulleten board!
Wonderful idea.. thank you