What little thing am I missing that's preventing my bp from eating?

[starfire]

Trying to troubleshoot nuances that may be preventing my 7 year old normal male rescue from eating. I am an older lady with her first snake and on my own here. Suggestions welcome.

History:

Adult male normal bp rescued and rehabbed winter 2008.
Had not eaten for 4 months when rescued; physical trauma and health problems resolved during rehab.
During spring 2008 ate both live and f/t medium rats 1x a week; strong feeding response.
Adopted 7/2008; switched to exclusively f/t medium rats 7/2008 1x a week; no problems, strong feeding response.
Sept. 2008 starting eating only if rat left in tub overnight--shy but ate OK.
Refused food late 10/2008 and did not take food again until 3/2009.

During this time, saw good herp vet; no mites, parasites, RIs, etc. Minimal weight loss during entire fast. Clean and healthy bp.
Vet suggested feeding every 10-14 days once eating again.

Was offered rats every week, then every 2 weeks. Experimented with all of the usual listed sticky suggestions. Also tried supervised live rats, f/t mice. Refused all.

Started eating f/t medium rats again 3/9/2009
Ate 3/22/2009
Refused 4/5/2009, ate 4/12/2009.
Refused 4/26, 5/3, 5/11--ate 5/17/2009
That was the last time he ate to date, over a month ago.

Feeding routine:

No handling feeding day
Fed in his tub
Rats thawed @ room temp and heated by hair dryer or heat lamp before offered with hemostats
Room prescented at least 1 hour

Have tried moving tub location in rack, feeding at different times of day, with light on/off, rat puppet theater action, offering rats from different sources, leaving hides/removing hides, switching substrate to paper towels, switching to appropriately-sized matching round hides. So far, no joy.

Environment:

RBI CB70 3-tub rack heated with two strips of 3” Flexwatt heat tape
Rack housed in a converted walk-in closet; quiet, no traffic, no drafts
12 hours light/12 hours dark
Herpstat thermostat
Acurite thermometer/hygrometer with probe
Radio Shack wireless thermometer
RBI temp gun
Ambient temp: 78-81F
Cool side temps: 79-82F
Warm side temps: 92-94F
Humidity: 60-65% (70s in shed)
Heat supplemented as needed by oil filled heater
Same size smaller black plastic RBI hides both sides
Aspen substrate
Disinfectant: Chlorhexidine gluconate
Cleaning: Tub spot-cleaned daily as needed; complete tub changeout and disinfecting every 10 days
Water changed daily
Handled a couple of times a week for 10-15 minutes when eating on schedule; no handling when not eating

Misc.:

All 4 sheds since 7/2008 have been complete and one-piece perfect.
He thermoregulates appropriately.
Drinks and urinates. No soaking in water bowel.
Has a calm temperament. Alert and responsive but no striking, escaping, or balling up when handled. Good muscle tone and tongue flicking.

Gotta be operator error. I think I have the environmental basics covered, but apparently I'm missing whatever it is that's bothering him. I keep daily records and in review, cannot identify any significant differences in his environment when he's eating and when he's not. Thanks for taking time to read this lengthy post.

[mrshawt]

No, it looks like you've got every thing on your end covered. And beautifully I might add. Keep up the good work.

However, it is bp mating season, where many males' minds stray from warm rat goodness to...you know...
Just keep offering food and checking his weight every so often. Also, I would maybe refrain from handling him until he starts eating again, just in case.

Welcome by the way! There's ton of stuff to learn here although it looks like you already know a ton!

[pavlovk1025]

No, it looks like you've got every thing on your end covered. And beautifully I might add. Keep up the good work.

However, it is bp mating season, where many males' minds stray from warm rat goodness to...

...cold blooded sexiness.

[blackcrystal22]

The only thing I can throw in is to try throwing a RBI hide in there.
Also, have you tried moving down tub-sizes? When one my snakes is having trouble feeding (even my adults) moving them down a tub size tend to get them back on schedule. Try moving him to a 32q.

Just another idea.

[Kysenia]

I would try no handling for 1 week or up to next feeding attempt, I would downsize the tub, and also try covering the front of the tub for security or adding paper filler in the tub for increase security.

But I second what others have said, as long as there is no major weight loss it can be normal for feeding behavior during breeding season to change, hang in there

[Wh00h0069]

The only thing I can throw in is to try throwing a RBI hide in there.
Also, have you tried moving down tub-sizes? When one my snakes is having trouble feeding (even my adults) moving them down a tub size tend to get them back on schedule. Try moving him to a 32q.

Just another idea.

I agree, I have had some ball pythons start eating again once moved from a 41 quart to a 28 or 32 quart. I also had one refuse in a 32 quart, so I moved him down into a 6 quart, and he started eating again a few days later. A hide is also a good idea. They like tight, dark hides. Good luck.

[frankykeno]

Never apologize for giving us full information. It's a wonderful thing!

The only information I'd like to know is this snake's weight and length (just to help us help you better). Tracking weights, especially during seasonal or breeding induced fasts, will really help you see that in most cases these are quite normal events and result in very overall weight loss. You may see a more significant loss in breeding females or in younger males that are breeding very actively but in your case, with a pet snake that's sexually mature, you shouldn't really see any large percentage of body weight lost.

It sounds like you have your ducks in a row as far as his husbandry and are doing very well on your record keeping.

[Wh00h0069]

Have you tried African soft-furred rats? Mice?

[nicktreb]

sexy time!

[starfire]

Sincere thanks to everyone who has taken time to reply. It’s a busy world, and I appreciate your efforts and willingness to help. Some of you, I’ve been reading your forum posts for more than a year. Truly appreciate all of your personal replies and respect your experience and dedication. “Each one, teach one” is alive and well on BP.net.

frankykeno asked about weight and length… he is 34” long and weighs 1600g. His weight has fluctuated as follows:

7/2008 1741g (he'd been fed extra during rehab to help him recover)
10/2008 1645g
12/2008 1640g
1/2009 1568g
2/2009 1549g
3/2009 1565g
4/2009 1580g
5/2009 1598g
6/2009 1600g

His greatest loss was a total of 192g over the winter. He had begun to gain back lost weight in 3/2009-4/2009. Right now he’s 1600g, down 141g from the original 1741g. But as I mentioned earlier, he's still robust and strong. I’ve spoken to my herp vet several times over the months about the weight loss, and he characterized it as minor considering the fast.

To those who suggested my male snake might be trying to bring sexy back… OK, I knew about fall fasts for mating hopefuls, but I didn't know bps can go off feed in the spring as well. Thanks for pointing that out.

To those who suggested hides… yes, in addition to the RBI hides I’ve also tried snug plastic round hides and larger RBI hides. We did the Goldilocks thing last summer with several sets of matching hides to see which he preferred. I’m embarrassed to tell you how much time I clocked last year trying to find a correlation between hide size, shape and feeding success. So far… none. But he does use hides.

To those who cautioned against handling… yes, absolutely, and since he’s not eating, I’ve stopped all handling. Exceptions: I did weigh him this month, and on his last shed I did examine him briefly to ensure all shed was gone. Other than that, no “recreational” handling. When he's on his eating schedule, I handle him 10-15 minutes a couple times a week; when he skips a meal, I stop handling.

To those who suggested downsizing his tubs to 32 qt. and below… he is an adult male and currently lives in a 3-tiered RBI rack with CB70 (30.6 qt.) tubs. The tubs measure 17.75” x 33.5” x 5.25” and fit snugly into the rack. Until now I hadn’t considered moving him to anything smaller. But Eddie, you mentioned you’d had success moving down to a 6 qt. tub, even? Definitely worth considering if this fast continues.

I will try Kysenia’s suggestion of covering the front of the tub.

To answer Eddie’s question, no, I haven’t tried ASFs but I have tried mice.

Again, thank you all for responding. I will apply the tweaks as discussed and keep the faith.