Input on multiple snakes in one tank.

[blackcrystal22]

i would just like to add,since we do try to replicate thier natural areas temps and so on,and try to find out how they in the wild,this was one hole

YouTube - Ball pythons in the wild

I think this depends on the time of year (clearly breeding season where many solitary animals will come together) and the amount of cover in the area.

Stargazer, your animals sound more like lab rats rather than appreciated pets or breeders to me.

Though there is no evidence to back up some of the reasons against housing the animals together, there are also more solid reasons to house them separately than together. If the reason they are housed together is because of money or convenience (I'm not talking about business) then I doesn't sound like the owner should have the animals at all if they are not willing to undergo any circumstance that the animal needs for care despite the money or work. (I am not directing this at the OP in any way, as he intends on making an exhibit later down the road.)

Here are some things to consider though. Yes, you could keep them together and be problem free, but that also depends on what you consider problems or not.
The males seem old enough to breed, as well as that female;are you prepared for babies financially and intellectually?
If one did get an RI for some reason, or had a parasitic problem, would you have enough money to cover all of their vet bills?
What if, by chance, cannibalism were to occur?

Do you have to separate them literally? No.
Should you separate them? Yes.
But this is all my opinion. And I agree with Wes in that, the snakes are perfectly capable of living together and surviving together. That does not guarantee their health and welfare though by any means.

I think, like many others on this forum, that you would not regret separating them. It would add more convenience to feeding, cleaning, and husbandry IMO. I prefer to keep track of what my snakes are doing and what is going on with them. I think this would be difficult in a multiple snake enclosure.

It is our opinions, based off of experience and knowledge of these animals. We can only suggest and add advise. We can't make you do anything.

[blackcrystal22]

Also, when I take my class on Animal Behavior next year, I'll make sure to bring up the question of dominance with ball pythons just for you Wes, though I doubt they will know much about ball pythons.

[stargazer]

Also, when I take my class on Animal Behavior next year, I'll make sure to bring up the question of dominance with ball pythons just for you Wes, though I doubt they will know much about ball pythons.

Have fun at class!! I'll be doing this first hand.. LAB RATS!!What a joke...

[Argentra]

I already have taken that class. It was cool...would have been better if the teacher had known HOW to teach.

This topic has been done to death, but valid points are always brought up.

No, as far as anyone knows there is no scientific proof against housing snakes together.
Yes, it is a personal choice whether or not to do so.
Yes, MOST snake keepers choose to house their snakes separately for many reasons.
No, the OP is not forced to separate his snakes. No one is.

The reasons for housing separately are mostly for the peace of mind of the keeper. Separate snakes mean easier record keeping of defecations, sheds, feedings, refusals, and the like. It also means less Chance of having to take multiple snakes to the vet if one gets sick, and it means the ability to control breeding.
I am sure there are many snake keepers who have housed multiple snakes together and had no problems...even successes. But that is beside the point. The people who house separately, and those who house together, do so because it works well for them and their snakes.

Bottom line: for new snake owners who don't know the little details and the ins and outs of snake keeping, it is most often best for their snakes to be housed separately while they learn.

[Joe Cope]

This should be a sticky. >.>

[mrshawt]

Regardless of any evidence in favor or against housing bp's together, are you willing to risk the potential consequences in doing? These are wild animals, and no matter how much we think we know our snakes, they can react in ways we don't expect.

Just the fact that vet bills are doubled with housing snakes together turns me off completely to the idea. You may think you're saving some money by only setting up one enclosure. Each person here has already shelled out enough cash on just bp to maintain it's husbandry and needs. I know I sure have, so why skimp on a basic need?

However, if you believe that the pros outweight the cons, go ahead. But that will be the first thing considered as a reason when a thread pops up here about a bp going off feed or being aggressive. The first thing members here ask in a thread like that are the details of the husbandry.

[blackcrystal22]

Have fun at class!! I'll be doing this first hand.. LAB RATS!!What a joke...

Your treatment of your animals in a 'study' and seeing a possibly dangerous fight amongst the animals and saying for the sake of the 'study' says they are virtually your test subjects and you don't care if they injure each other in the process.
In my opinion, it is on the edge of abuse. Also, what did you do with all of those eggs you received? How big was the female when she laid?

[wilomn]

I keep seeing the same few things mentioned over and over.

It's easier to keep them separately.

If one poops or regurges, you won't know which one it is.

It's easier.

IF you don't keep them separately because it's cheaper to keep them together, you don't deserve to have them and, in fact should not have them at all.

It's easier.

If one gets sick, they all will. Can you afford the bill?

It's easier.

If one gets sick is it not likely that the others housed separately have exactly the same chance of getting sick as the ill snake? If they are kept identically, how can you say only one will get sick? How does one get sick to begin with and why would ONLY one get sick even if they were housed separately? Seems to me there's the same chance of all of them getting sick as just one, whether housed together or not once you've got something in your snakes, it's there for groups as well as singles.

The easy part comes up most often. So what some of you seem to be saying is that if someone else doesn't want to do it the way you think it should be done, whether it is because they can't afford more than one set up or just don't want to make one, which frankly is not only no ones business but who the bloody hell are you folks passing judgement on people for not wanting to spend as much as you? Mighty white of you ain't it?

Maybe it's just me, but when one of my snakes poops, I can tell. If one of mine pukes up a meal, I know which one it is. I actually can tell my snakes apart. Maybe those of you who couldn't tell which of several had pooped or which one had regurged (not even getting into WHY it regurged) maybe the fault lies with you for not being able to tell. I mean if I can do it, and many many of you have called me an idiot, to be kind, and if you can't, again, perhaps the fault is closer to home than you want to look.

One final thing. Going back the the who in the bloody hell do some of you think you are thing; DESERVE? Are you serious? You're going to post, here, in public, that YOU get to decide who DESERVES to have ball pythons and who doesn't?

Let me just LOL right here and now.

Wow, the high horses really came in this afternoon. Good thing I've got an industrial size shovel and some extra time.

This is a mess.

[Skiploder]

I keep seeing the same few things mentioned over and over.

It's easier to keep them separately.

If one poops or regurges, you won't know which one it is.

It's easier.

IF you don't keep them separately because it's cheaper to keep them together, you don't deserve to have them and, in fact should not have them at all.

It's easier.

If one gets sick, they all will. Can you afford the bill?

It's easier.

If one gets sick is it not likely that the others housed separately have exactly the same chance of getting sick as the ill snake? If they are kept identically, how can you say only one will get sick? How does one get sick to begin with and why would ONLY one get sick even if they were housed separately? Seems to me there's the same chance of all of them getting sick as just one, whether housed together or not once you've got something in your snakes, it's there for groups as well as singles.

The easy part comes up most often. So what some of you seem to be saying is that if someone else doesn't want to do it the way you think it should be done, whether it is because they can't afford more than one set up or just don't want to make one, which frankly is not only no ones business but who the bloody hell are you folks passing judgement on people for not wanting to spend as much as you? Mighty white of you ain't it?

Maybe it's just me, but when one of my snakes poops, I can tell. If one of mine pukes up a meal, I know which one it is. I actually can tell my snakes apart. Maybe those of you who couldn't tell which of several had pooped or which one had regurged (not even getting into WHY it regurged) maybe the fault lies with you for not being able to tell. I mean if I can do it, and many many of you have called me an idiot, to be kind, and if you can't, again, perhaps the fault is closer to home than you want to look.

One final thing. Going back the the who in the bloody hell do some of you think you are thing; DESERVE? Are you serious? You're going to post, here, in public, that YOU get to decide who DESERVES to have ball pythons and who doesn't?

Let me just LOL right here and now.

Wow, the high horses really came in this afternoon. Good thing I've got an industrial size shovel and some extra time.

This is a mess.

Heck, you couldn't even hint that you kept snakes around here two years ago without being hit with some extreme judgement.

I was searching for a thread that was bouncing around a few years ago - if memory serves - it was the one where Jack Spirko made an attempt to point out that sometimes the forum dogma was wrong. The main gist was that housing two snakes together was a generally accepted practice outside of this little group. Boy did he get slammed...........and ridiculed...........

Didn't find it - maybe it got QTd or deleted - maybe someone will remember it and post a link.

I bring it up only in the context that people are now at least able to discuss the issue without being told they are idiots.

[Egapal]

This thread is ridiculous. Multiple Ball Pythons should not be hosed together. There are lots of reasons. The biggest issue I see here is breeding. You have a small female that could get bred and suffer because of it. Your bigger female might be ok being bred but, are you ready for eggs? The issues with housing multiple ball pythons together has been beat TO DEATH. Arguments to the contrary fall into two categories. Those who look at the snakes with there mammalian brains and say "oh they look happy" and those that those that are just plain big headed ignorant. If you want to keep your snakes together feel free. If you have any issues with your snakes this forum and anyone in the know will start with "Seperate the snakes".

One last thing. If you want scientific proof then start thinking like a scientist.

Understand that your situation is not the rule, understand that you are wrong until you prove you are right. Sure the accepted wisdom could be wrong, I will not deny the possibility. The burden of proof is on you though. Until you show otherwise, multiple ball pythons should not be housed together. One last time, 4 balls in a tank is not proof that the accepted wisdom is wrong.