Mite Killers

[Faber]

also it says not to use most mite meds right after shedding, why is this? also should i treat my snake now, his eyes are just starting to blue.

[JeffJ]

also it says not to use most mite meds right after shedding, why is this? also should i treat my snake now, his eyes are just starting to blue.

i use pam. and it does not mention anything about a shed cycle. and last time i sprayed my bp was in the very early stages of a shed. he is doing just fine right now.

[adrenalinejunkie]

I've used Reptile Relief when one of my lizards got mites and I haven't seen mites since in any of my cages so there was no transfer.. It worked well for me.

[Repsrul]

Not worth it to ME to save a few bucks on a product that hasn't been tested for use on reptiles. Might be fine now - but what are the long term effects? Just something to think about? I've invested a lot in my collection, I'd rather have piece of mind to use the only product that's been tested safe for reptiles, rather than a cheap imitation.

I was thinking the same exact thing. This has been brought up numerous times on other forums and it goes nowhere. I personally use BK II. It is amazing how quick and affective it is.

[Repsrul]

i use pam. and it does not mention anything about a shed cycle. and last time i sprayed my bp was in the very early stages of a shed. he is doing just fine right now.

You said and I quote "and last time i sprayed my bp", You dont actually spray your BP do you?

[SugarFox03]

I use Black Knight II. Works great, hard to find though. If I didn't have access to this (local reptile store sells it) I'd definitely invest in a can of PAM just to keep handy. Or maybe I'd try that Walmart Equate stuff people are mentioning. Hopefully I won't have to use it again, and it just becomes a very expensive roach killer (hey, I live in S FL and it's summer - we get some roaches here!)

[vangarret2000]

I use a NIX solution. I discovered mites earlyer this week on my new CCP.

[promist]

I would appreciate the opportunity to respond to some of the comments made on this thread. It was recently brought to my attention by a fellow herper.

Mites have always been a major problem and until recent years, no specific products were developed and tested for use specifically with reptiles. For this reason, throughout the years, our industry has tried numerous “home remedies”, many with adverse consequences, some acute, but many causing long term chronic problems, affecting the animal even months or years later.

Being involved with reptiles for 50 years, I too had my share of problems with mites and other ectoparasites. Because of my professional background, knowledge of pesticides and involvement in the pesticide industry, I was able to develop a product specially designed for reptiles that was truly effective and would not cause any health problems, either acute or chronic when used as directed.

Even leading zoos, vets and other qualified people tried many off-label products, only to find out over time that they were harmful to reptiles. Even these well-educated persons are not experts in the field of pesticides, so despite one’s best efforts, no one really knows what is in a particular product or how it will affect a specific host. To further complicate matters, every pesticide product sold has a “master label” filed with the USEPA (proprietary trade secrets, not available to the public). The manufacture can submit several active and other ingredients on the same master label for registration, which once approved by the EPA, the manufacture can then change the product as they wish without any additional notification. So a product that may have seemed to been OK in the past, can be changed and now becomes toxic to a non-labeled host. This just recently happened with one of the “copycat” products people assume is the same as Provent-a-mite and we have received much e-mail regarding this, an example is posted below*.

Nobody knows what really is in any pesticide, as the manufacture doesn’t have to reveal what the actual formula is or what the specific cis-trans ratio is for the active shown. They can change inert ingredients whenever they want as long as it doesn’t cause any adverse affects to the labeled hosts for the product. Many inerts that are safe for a labeled host will be toxic to other hosts.

The primary complaint some people have regarding Provent-a-mite is cost. Unfortunately, the specific formula we require is considerably more expensive than these other products. There is currently only one source that produces the active we must have with the cis-trans ratio that we proved through clinical studies would not harm a reptile. Other ranges have absolutely been shown to be toxic to reptiles, but are much less expensive and will normally not harm humans and other higher vertebrates, so are used by other manufactures as it is acceptable for exposure to humans, mammals, plants and inanimate objects, but these other formulas can definitely be toxic to reptiles, other lower vertebrates and invertebrates. We also have to pay the same regulatory fees that every other company has to, regardless of how much product is sold (bigger companies actually get a discount not available to us). Because of this, there is a much higher cost per can that we have to pass on, as we do not sell the quantities each year as these other companies do. So despite some opinions, we are not gouging our customers, this is how much we have to charge based on the circumstances.

On the other hand, if one examines how much the cost per application is (average 5-50 cents per cage), how much more effective Provent-a-mite is, the reduction of labor and expense to eliminate an infestation as compared to other products, the shelf life of our product (average 7-10 years), the fact that it is the only product that is approved by both the EPA and USDA specifically for use with snakes, lizards and tortoises, is the only product that will provide the long term residual protection required and when used properly, will not pose any risk to a reptile. Provent-a-mite is also the only product that can be used preventatively to stop any disease carrying mites or ticks before they can infect a reptile. Is it worth it to experiment with one’s animals trying other products to save a couple of dollars? Apparently in our industry the answer is yes, even though it has been proven many times to be a tragic mistake.

I challenge anyone who makes the claim that Provent-a-mite is the same as these other products to provide any documentation to support their claim. Stating the active is the same as other products is like saying all soap is the same because all types are generically called soap. There are many different soap formulas and they are certainly not the same. Try taking a shower with powdered laundry detergent and you will quickly find out it is different than a standard bar of body soap, but they are both soap. Provent-a-mite is a patented product and our formula is a trade secret. Unless one works for one of these other manufactures, they have no clue as to what are really in these other products and certainly do not know if and when the formulations are changed. Just because the name of the active is the same, it doesn’t tell a person what the specific cis-trans ratio is or what any of the inert ingredients are. Only if the product has been approved by the EPA and the label states the product can be used for a specific purpose can one be sure it will not cause any adverse effects when used as directed.

Regarding mites, ticks and other ectoparasites, one of the biggest risks regarding an infestation not realized by many people is the potential to transmit various diseases to the host reptile. All of the existing treatments currently used, whether seeming effective or not, don’t provide any long term residual protection, so although they may be able to eliminate the ectoparasites in the cage, they will not eliminate the risk of any disease transmission, as they can only be used when an active infestation is discovered. By then, it may be too late as the reptiles have already been fed on, so any pathenogens, bacteria or other risk may have already been transmitted.

Another problem has to do with eggs. Few, if any products can actually kill the eggs and many manufactures that made these claims (for any type of pest) in the past were fined for making such unsubstantiated claims. The other issue concerning eggs is that usually the adult mite or tick will leave the cage and lay their eggs in a location in the room, not the cage. Not only will this remote location not be treated (whether effective or not), but also based on a term called “degree days”, the temperature at that location directly affects the egg hatch rate and metamorphosis of any sub-adult stages. It is widely assumed that the life cycle of a mite is around 3-4 weeks, but this is when the ambient temperature is in the 80’s. As the temperature drops, the life cycle and hatch time extend, and can result in up to several months before a metamorphosis occurs or the egg hatches. This is a common reason people state that they went through all of the trouble cleaning and disinfecting their collection, only to have mites appear again several months later. Even though the mites in the cage may have been eliminated, the mites infesting the surrounding areas were never affected. Even if the room is maintained at a fairly warm temperature, there are still many areas that will be substantially colder, for example: under the sill plate of an outside wall or in direct contact with a concrete surface. Mites and other ectoparasites survive many months during the colder periods outside, only to become active again when the ambient temperatures support such activity.

These were some of the initial challenges that had to be addressed during the development and formulating of Provent-a-mite. Not only did the product have to be effective to eliminate an active infestation, but it also had to provide continuous long-term residual protection to kill any ectoparasites before they could infest or re-infest a collection and potentially infect the host, as well as not posing any health risk to the host.

Looking at other products sold for this purpose, every other product breaks down quickly and has little or no effect once they dry (many are limited even when still wet), so provide no residual protection. This then requires multiple applications, putting the reptile at a greater risk of acquiring a disease from multiple feedings and unless the product is applied directly to the mite or tick, it is not effective, which is practically impossible to do every time. The application rate and required frequency to treat an infestation is much higher, so the final cost to treat an outbreak is more expensive and these products do nothing to kill any mites or ticks weeks or months later when they re-infest a collection from their hiding places outside of the cage.

These are a few of the more significant reasons Provent-a-mite is different than any other product available and why it is more effective than any other mite treatment approved for use with reptiles.

Bob Pound promist@comcast.net
Pro Products www.pro-products.com

*Straight up honesty here...

I didn’t believe your provent-a-mite would be any different than lice bedding spray, like what you get at walmart. Same active ingredient at the same concentration. I could not see spending the amount you sell your product at, and having to order it, at least a week away since its ground ship only, and I had an outbreak to deal with ASAP. Well, I treated 12 colubrid cages and a few young boa cages. As per the directions for your product, so far I have lost a hognose snake, and most of the corns are behaving strangely. One of the boas was doing some weird behavior, but seems ok now. Its been 48 hours now. Now I dont know whats going to happen with the corns, one is lethargic, the rest are just doing some herky jerky movements, but seem like they could possibly recover. If you think they are going to die, then I think I should just put them down. If you think they will recover, please let me know before I freeze them. I will never use this (censored) again, I am sorry for not believeing you. I used to read your posts in the forums in a different light, now I understand... I have taken all the enclosures and replaced the substrate with untreated newspaper, and of course cleaned their water bowls, which were not in the enclosure for 24 hours after treatment. Is there anything I can do, or should I consider them lost?
I have been in this hobby seriously for 3 years, and on and off my whole life. Almost every snake I have ever bought, unless I paid ALOT for it from a reputable dealer eventually gave me mites while in quarantine, this one didnt hatch out until it was in my main room. Every snake I have got at the St. Louis reptile show has had mites, no more st. louis shows for me.

Well if you have any suggestions to try to save my snakes, please help
A new customer forever, and again I apologize for not listening. I still feel your stuff is way over priced, and think you could get much better support if it were more affordable, but there again, whatever is different in your formula may cost you more to have made. Just being honest...

Chris (omitted)
Steeleville, Illinois 62288

(618) 615-XXXX

Put this on your website, or post it on forums, do whatever you want with it, im not ashamed for thinking I was going to get ripped off by buying your stuff, but I am ashamed for not having even tried it to compare.

[Zoe]

I use none of the above. I would never use any pesticides anywhere near my snakes unless the cage was rinsed and dried, first.

I use ivory soap and then a good soak for the snakes, and spray down the enclosures with a NIX solution - let sit for an hour, wipe, rinse, dry. Bake or throw away any dirt and wood, and watch everything else. Vacuum, etc etc. Repeat in two weeks.

Worked for me.

[JeffJ]

You said and I quote "and last time i sprayed my bp", You dont actually spray your BP do you?

no i did not lol. sorry