Cinnamon/Black Pastel

[West Coast Jungle]

if they look the same and create same kind of supers then that should tell you they are the same kind. If bred together and create a super than that should tell you even more.. But if they creat different supers then you can say they are different.. They both make black snake!! They both look the same!! Don't force them to be different.

They dont both make a black snake, one makes a brown snake and one makes a black snake. The pewters are also very different as well as the combos with lessers and other morphs.

[Bill Buchman]

The supers do not look the same. Black pastel supers are black and cinny supers are brown.

With any morph you are gonna get variations. I have seen adult pastels that look like normals but yet they are not. Good examples of each morph should have noticeable differences. If you look at the hunter's guide it will point out the specific differences. In my experience they age differently and affect combos differently. Yes they are some that look like the other but IMO they are not good examples of the morphs, which we see all the time. The normals used to produce a morph have influence in the outcome of the babies so that has a lot to do with it too.

Here are a pic of two adults side by side and I dont think there is any mistaking the two.

I agree with Raul 100% -- when see one that resembles the other -- it is likely a poor example. When comparing similar morphs I prefer to see how said similar morphs appear in combination with the second morph in the combo being "shared".

I don't have to look very long to see that a Lithium (Butter Cinny), Black Platinum (Lesser Black Pastel), Butter Black Pastel, and Lesser Cinny are different in color and pattern. Below is the Lithium -- other combos have been posted in the past. I was really surprised how different the Butter Cinny and Lesser Cinny appeared -- which is why I believe the Lesser and Butter are similar but different as well as the Cinny and Black Pastel.

It is the COMBOS that show what a morph "is" by what it "does" with other morphs -- rather than comparing just the base morphs -- I believe.

[xdeus]

It is the COMBOS that show what a morph "is" by what it "does" with other morphs -- rather than comparing just the base morphs -- I believe.

That doesn't make much sense, though. If you were to breed the two above snakes to a pastel or Butter, of course they would look different. But what if you bred a dark Cinny similar to that Black Pastel or a light Black Pastel similar to the Cinny? How much different would the combos be then?

For example, my cinnies tend to be on the dark side. The below cinny looks much closer to the above Black Pastel then it does to the cinny.

My point is that the genetics are very similar, but there are obviously differences in the lines that came across. Who is to say that all of the original imports that were labeled as such have the same genetic makeup? Do all Cinnamon lines have the same exact gene that make them a Cinny, and likewise with Black Pastels?

[Bill Buchman]

That doesn't make much sense, though. If you were to breed the two above snakes to a pastel or Butter, of course they would look different. But what if you bred a dark Cinny similar to that Black Pastel or a light Black Pastel similar to the Cinny? How much different would the combos be then?

For example, my cinnies tend to be on the dark side. The below cinny looks much closer to the above Black Pastel then it does to the cinny.

My point is that the genetics are very similar, but there are obviously differences in the lines that came across. Who is to say that all of the original imports that were labeled as such have the same genetic makeup? Do all Cinnamon lines have the same exact gene that make them a Cinny, and likewise with Black Pastels?

Yes, I believe they are different by line regardless of color. I work with Ian G. Black Pastels, Graziani Cinnys, and BHB Cinnys. There is a DISTINCT DIFFERENCE between the 2 lines(Blacks and Cinnys) that is independent of color. I am doing one special pairing with a FANTASTIC Graziani female based on her color and blushing -- both of which I have never seen in any BHB Cinny. Those that have a HIGH RED/BLUSHED Graziani know how incredible they look.

The Ian G. Black should appear to be a pattern morph as much a color morph -- if it is at least a "good" example. I am breeding both morphs this season and am excited about their offspring. I don't look at them as interchangable.

In my collection they are different animals(Cinnys and Blacks) that produce different results.

[Mike Schultz]

They are similar in their heterozygous forms but very different when you mix them with other morphs or create supers

When you look at the "lines" though there is definitely a difference even in the base form of the morph... its easy to tell between a BHB cinnamon and an Ian G black pastel for example.

[Aes_Sidhe]

Different. Definitely more cousins than brothers
Ok can anyone post a picture pc pewter. And black pewter to compare this to combos?

And other question is how cinnamon x black pastel combo looks like more black or more brown ?

[SGExotics]

Tne cinny has a lot more lower blushings...

[spk329]

Heres my Black Pastel.....Don't think anyone will say she looks like a Cinny

[Qetu]

tottaly diferent XD

[Mike Schultz]

Heres my Black Pastel.....Don't think anyone will say she looks like a Cinny

Wow, that's a REALLY cool black pastel!!