Big snakes, small enclosures.

[AaronP]

I've seen beautiful snakes come from the most horrid conditions, eat upon arrival, and act normal. That point remains invalid.

Well I personally haven't seen this, so I'm basing my comment on my own personal experiences, which have shown that poor conditions result in animals in poor condition, but that is my opinion.

[dr del]

Hi,

I have to tell you Pat - I don't see bear baiting.

I'm not overly keen on the allegation of staff bias either - but if that's your opinion after reading all of this then I certainly can't change your mind.

You are just as entitled to your opinions as the rest of the members - including the staff. We would never let the personal opinions affect how we enforce the rules but we are still allowed to have them and express them within the framework of the rules if we want to.

Although I have to ask - you don't see any points to ponder in the fact that the people defending him have dealt with him or visited his facility and the most voiciferous people throwing around the wilder of the allegations have done neither?

The initial post asked a specific question and the opinions on that have been mixed.

if you dont have the space to house 40 retics, rocks and burms
you shouldnt have them, retics, rocks and burms dont need extreme big cages but the way brian does it is animalcruelty in my eyes........
its all about breeding/popularity and lots of money i think....

With the rock pythons, I'll agree. The caging isn't too small. It is just right. I've kept and bred Rocks for quite a while.

But once started the thread has broadened and meandered into the question of monitors with reasons given for and against the use of feeding cages.

Then there are the allegations that Brian was being less than honest when he stated the housing was temporary in another example. I honestly do not think that was called for. Does he have a reputaion for dishonesty that I don't know about?

You say if it was any other breeder they would be slammed for any minor inconsistency - could you link me to any thread where that has happened on the site in the past?

This site has always tried to avoid the spats against breeders or other websites wherever possible from what I have seen.

It's beginning to remind me of a witch hunt or an old mangy dog trying to chew a bone with broken down teeth - he just keeps moving it around trying to find a weak spot.

I don't know a thing about monitors or how they should be caged and fed so have nothing to add to that discussion at all. But I argue with people enough to know that when you change the focus or thrust of the argument but keep the same target then the argument is and always was irrelevant and you start looking for the motivation for the continued attack.

I don't know what the xchange rate is for two cents so you can have a quid if you like.


dr del

[CeraDigital]

If you choose to not do business with a breeder for any reason. I understand that 100%. We all have standards that we like to uphold when we give our business to someone. These standards can range for everyone from the way the animals are fed to the way they are house or shipped.

Your perfectly entitled to do business with those breeders you choose. However to demand that a businessman come on our forums and justify themselves to anyone is not only very bold but speaks of an ego that needs to be checked.

Who are we to approach any professional full time business man from aspect of the industry and demand that they plead their case with us.

If you have questions about how a breeder operates call them, talk with them, and make your decision on whether you wish to do business with them.

When did the internet forums become the scale on which all breeders are weighed.

I understand the concerns that have been voiced here. They are valid to each of you.

He came to the forum of his own free will, and posted said videos that open up questionability towards his husbandry with his animals. We are who we are. The reputation of the breeder is not only made by themselves, but it is also made by the customers who had bought from them.

Internet, and internet forums actually changed the face of the reptile industry, and aided the growth of the reptile hobby. It is no different than something such as the BBB. It makes it much simpler for them to express their customer service. Why wouldn't a thread full of reptile keepers and enthusiasts possibly wanting to purchase an animal, be allowed to inquire on the upkeep and caging of said animals?

[wilomn]

Brian should have the benefit of the doubt here. I have never heard one single reason why he should not.

The only reputation he has is a good one.

So you guys saw what amounts to a messy kitchen. What makes you think, ASS ume, that it is always that way?

Brian, from now on, clean house BEFORE you shoot video, not all the yocals get it.

And before anyone says it, I am not friends with Brian, nor have I been a customer in many years, though I have known him for 20 years, maybe a bit more. He's got all the qualities I'd look for in a friend and were he closer, allowing to actually build a friendship, I'd be proud to call him one.

I got no dog in this fight, I just see a bunch of folks demanding stuff from a good guy in a manner that would irritate me were it directed my way and which, in this instance, I disagree with the use of. I don't think he warrants the type of attention he's getting from some folks here.

Pattimuss, IF he were even remotely rumored to be a scumbag there is no way some of us would be, poorly, trying to back him up, me in particular. It's not favoritism, it's good past business and friends, who can be biased but this must be accepted, backing a good guy. It's what we all hope will happen when someone says crap about us when we aren't there to defend against it.

Sort of like you did for me on that site with that guy who's too dumb to know how stupid he really is, truly in a league all his own, you know?

You had my back, some here have Brians, but it is certainly not favoritism. I suspect that staff here, had they nothing good to say, would simply say nothing at all. Maybe not, but that's my suspicion and I'm sticking to it.

[CeraDigital]

I have to tell you Pat - I don't see bear baiting.

I see it. Any other member would have been nailed with infractions for it. Correct? They would have also been nailed with negative reps.

You say if it was any other breeder they would be slammed for any minor inconsistency - could you link me to any thread where that has happened on the site in the past?

I'll give you one simple name. Wes Harris. Wes did not crash the market. His partner did. His partner was posting his breeder animals for sale, yet your staff ripped him a part, as well as members. For what? His husbandry was correct. His animals were very healthy. The only thing anyone had on him was that his partner, not Wes, was crashing markets.

This site has always tried to avoid the spats against breeders or other websites wherever possible from what I have seen.

I've seen otherwise. I've been here around 4 years, and I've seen numerous breeders being attacked and persecuted, even when defending themselves, with both staff and members against them. Valid reasons for inquiring were brought up here, and elsewhere for a while, and yet go unanswered.

As for JP's answer vs. mine. European views on giant husbandry differs from Americans. It's tat simple. They're not cramping their animals in smaller enclosures than needed, yet still they do not give them ridiculous room sized enclosures. He may feel that the cage may be too small. That would be his decision. The cages are just right for the size. As for the monitors, it is different. Feeding cages are a good way for personal injury, or injury to the animal. Cages that small for monitors are in fact that....small....a little too small....

[CeraDigital]

You had my back, some here have Brians, but it is certainly not favoritism. I suspect that staff here, had they nothing good to say, would simply say nothing at all. Maybe not, but that's my suspicion and I'm sticking to it.

Wilomn, no strike against you, but I am not bashing, nor taking a jab at Brian. I simply see some inquiries that should be answered. Some of the questions asked have went unanswered for a while now, and ignored. Not only by beginning hobbyists, but experienced monitor keepers who have been doing such for well over a decade. Bad business in my views. I've asked him before, with no reply.

[Freakie_frog]

He came to the forum of his own free will, and posted said videos that open up questionably towards his husbandry with his animals. We are who we are.

I agree and yet I have yet to see a post (unless I missed it) say's.. "I saw the video and called Brian because I was in the process of buying an animal from him..Heres what he said.."

The reputation of the breeder is not only made by themselves, but it is also made by the customers who had bought from them.

And yet Brian is one of the most consistently profitable breeders on the face of the earth. So I'd say his reputation is secured by said customers from the last 25 years.

Internet, and internet forums actually changed the face of the reptile industry, and aided the growth of the reptile hobby. It is no different than something such as the BBB. It makes it much simpler for them to express their customer service.

I agree it has both for the good and the bad..

Why wouldn't a thread full of reptile keepers and enthusiasts possibly wanting to purchase an animal, be allowed to inquire on the upkeep and caging of said animals?

I never said you weren't...however why would a group of truly concerned reptile keepers and possible customer if they are seriously concerned not pose these questions and accusations on an internet forum and not to the person in question..I have a theory.

1: They lack the true concern and are merely wanting to stir the pot.

2: They lack the intestinal fortitude to make the same accusations in person they do behind the keyboard..

Even lets say for a moment Brian is doing a horrid thing to these animals. Who has called him to pose these concerns to him personally.

I want to hear from you..Who has been so upset by what they saw they called Brian???

[BHB]

Wow, do people really have nothing better to do then critique my caging?? I only have about 8 big pythons in my collection. I used to work with many more in the past. I had a nice viv for a big monitor that she would destroy every time I fed her. So I used to use a cage to feed her in. I only had the one big monitor. I have since got rid of it because it was too hard to care for in my collection. I have spent 23 years loving and caring for animals, that doesn't mean that I should get a free pass, but I can't believe that anyone that knows me or how I feel about animals would ever accuse me of doing anything but what I think is right for the animals. The only difference between me and all the other big breeders is that we put on a web show that is meant to enrich the community. I work hard at having people get excited about a hobby that I have loved for ever. I'll be honest with all the B.S. that has followed me around this past month or so I am having a hard time wanting to continue on with this open lifestyle. I make nothing off it, and it cost me a ton of money and time and all it seems to be doing is putting a bullseye on my back. Do you think that other breeders have zoo vivs that they keep their animals in?? They just haven't opened their lives up for everyone to see. I thought it was the right thing to do for the community. I'm starting to reconsider. I don't want to continue this back and forth in this thread, I need to care for animals not get pulled into an forum war. I respect anyones opinions, but please don't accuse me of lying or not caring for my animals. I can assure you that there is nobody that I know that makes more bad finacial decisions just so my animals get better care then what I do. I will always sacrifice money for the better of the animal. My life is my animals and if I did this for the money I would have got out of the business by now. I'll be totally honest, with all the lies like I'm trying to put the small breeders out of business or that I don't care for my animals or whatever the rumor is for the day. It is sucking the enjoyment that I have had for the hobby for so long. I don't want this to happen and I certainly didn't do anything to deserve it other then dedicate my life to animals. The hundreds of hours I spend responding to every e-mail about people that are getting their first snake or ones that have a problem with a snake even if they have a hundred of them. I don't get anything out of it, but trying to help the community. Try to get a return e-mail from most big breeders about a pastel you bought from someone else. See how many will return them?? I do it because I care about the animals whether they are mine or someone else's. I don't need a metal, but I would like a little respect for all that I try to do. I don't deserve respect, I feel I have earned it. I need to really think about the future of this more public life that I have decided to take. I don't know if it's worth it???? Brian(BHB)

[CeraDigital]

I want to hear from you..Who has been so upset by what they saw they called Brian???

I have, as I've stated. Via phone call, talking to Brian, I've asked about monitor caging he uses, and I was told he would get me a picture. I'm still waiting. THIS is why I am here posting. I want my inquiry answered as do others.

[CeraDigital]

Wow, do people really have nothing better to do then critique my caging?? I only have about 8 big pythons in my collection. I used to work with many more in the past. I had a nice viv for a big monitor that she would destroy every time I fed her. So I used to use a cage to feed her in. I only had the one big monitor. I have since got rid of it because it was too hard to care for in my collection. I have spent 23 years loving and caring for animals, that doesn't mean that I should get a free pass, but I can't believe that anyone that knows me or how I feel about animals would ever accuse me of doing anything but what I think is right for the animals. The only difference between me and all the other big breeders is that we put on a web show that is meant to enrich the community. I work hard at having people get excited about a hobby that I have loved for ever. I'll be honest with all the B.S. that has followed me around this past month or so I am having a hard time wanting to continue on with this open lifestyle. I make nothing off it, and it cost me a ton of money and time and all it seems to be doing is putting a bullseye on my back. Do you think that other breeders have zoo vivs that they keep their animals in?? They just haven't opened their lives up for everyone to see. I thought it was the right thing to do for the community. I'm starting to reconsider. I don't want to continue this back and forth in this thread, I need to care for animals not get pulled into an forum war. I respect anyones opinions, but please don't accuse me of lying or not caring for my animals. I can assure you that there is nobody that I know that makes more bad finacial decisions just so my animals get better care then what I do. I will always sacrifice money for the better of the animal. My life is my animals and if I did this for the money I would have got out of the business by now. I'll be totally honest, with all the lies like I'm trying to put the small breeders out of business or that I don't care for my animals or whatever the rumor is for the day. It is sucking the enjoyment that I have had for the hobby for so long. I don't want this to happen and I certainly didn't do anything to deserve it other then dedicate my life to animals. The hundreds of hours I spend responding to every e-mail about people that are getting their first snake or ones that have a problem with a snake even if they have a hundred of them. I don't get anything out of it, but trying to help the community. Try to get a return e-mail from most big breeders about a pastel you bought from someone else. See how many will return them?? I do it because I care about the animals whether they are mine or someone else's. I don't need a metal, but I would like a little respect for all that I try to do. I don't deserve respect, I feel I have earned it. I need to really think about the future of this more public life that I have decided to take. I don't know if it's worth it???? Brian(BHB)

Brian, I do tip my hat to you for the publicity of your animals and opening your facility to the simple hobbyists. I did not come here to bash you. I simple ask if you would post the pictures of your monitor caging. Not the "feeding cages". It would put a lot of questions to rest....