Eh i dont know, i've ran across some great deals that were INSANE, esp. on BP's if you're in a remote area like i am and people dont know what they have and sell to a pet store, etc... i've ran across a pastel before from a guy who was going overseas and was only 50, large female about as big around as my wrist, great feeder, even ate while i was there , not kinkled or anything... but with recent losses in my collection while i was gone for 2 weeks by the person staying at my house, i just couldn't find it in my heart to pick it upbut i did refer a friedn to it and she's still doing fine to this day.