Why We Are Idiots For Using Kingsnake.com To Price Our Animals

[dsirkle]

Also because people can't take 2 remote controls and start breeding their own that's kind of apples and oranges. Anytime there is a bad economy the sale of non essential items (pets) will be affected as people find it harder to afford essential goods. Hopefully it won't take too long to come out of this recession as we have all previous recessions.I think that such a site to compare prices may well be helpful to assist either a seller or a buyer in determining a stable going rate.

[mainbutter]

So with cbb yearling normals being about $20-$50, you're saying they were overpriced at $100, even though it costs at least $150 in food alone to care for that baby for that year? A pastel was over priced when they cost more than $100, even though the breeder paid $800 for the parents, and $$50-$100 just to hatch the eggs and feed the babies for a few months? The demand is substantially higher than we price our animals at, and kingsnake.com is the reason for it.

I'm saying that the numerous multi-thousand dollar ball pythons experienced some over-valuing based on speculation of future demand for offspring(though not all were over valued! I can't picture anything more difficult to predict future demand for than designer pet snakes).

And the sad fact of the matter is that for many local markets, the demand for normal BPs is low enough that it is hard to sell them for a profit. Craigslist adoptions alone did a serious number on hatchling/yearling normal BP prices.

The market is driven by supply and demand, but this is a particularly difficult market for sellers to judge the demand for their products.

I'm not saying that the article is inaccurate, but we shouldn't blame a drop in prices for morphs solely on liars and scammers. There's plenty of those who try to keep prices high as well(I've got a piebald in Nigeria I'd love to sell you )

[wilomn]

I'm confused.

Some of you seem concerned that prices are too high.

Yet others seem concerned that prices are too low.

Perhaps the motivation behind our/your deep concerns should be brought out and examined.

Is it money, profit, getting mine because I've done the work, that is the motivation here or is it get back at some assclowns, or is it purely philanthropic?

Motivations matter.

[BPHERP]

Everybody who breeds ball pythons needs to read this and give it some serious thought:

http://ballpythonbreeder.com/2009/04...imals/#respond

Colin,

1) I agree with everything you said about kingsnake; being that the actual, and not perceived rarity of morphs should reflect more realistic prices. But, in the real world, perception is reality.

2) Unfortunately, in a free unregulated market, pricing is whatever someone is willing to sell an animal for, (real or not) and furthering the problem, kingsnake is like ebay; everybody knows how to open a browser and comparison shop for anything. If Sony sells a certain Camera for $1000, but someone can go on eBay and find a seller who will part with one (of like and kind) for $650, all things considered equal; feedback, reputation, whatever, then which one do you think the average person will buy?

3) Next, breeders like Barczyk, McCurley, Clark, Wysocki, Kahl, Bell, Sutherland and Tracy Barker are who made this industry what it is (among others), but being legends of an industry has advantages and disadvantages; the advantages are notoriety, being a big name, having the most kick ass morphs, having stuff you refuse to show pics of, and also selling at a premium (at home and abroad), but for the smaller enthusiast and/or breeder there are perfectly good animals that sell for much less, that are of the same quality, same morph, etc.; (nobody has exclusive access to genes, other than truly rare specimens, at which point 95% can't afford in the first place.

4) Finally, the Internet is a place where someone can be anyone, offer anything, real or not, and nobody is ever going to stop these types of actions (other than creating some sort of system where listings have to show verifiable proof of life, which in the end would prove to costly, to difficult to regulate and to complicated to prevent circumvention.

BrandonBalls

[m00kfu]

I agree, but the I think the biggest problem isn't that people are using kingsnake to set their prices -- it's that people aren't willing to hold on to their hatchlings for as long as it takes to sell them at the price they want. That's something that I just don't get -- as the snake gets bigger, you can sell it for more. So why rush to dump them so quick? I can't even count how many times I've seen an animal up for sale and the seller drops the price every week until it's sold. If you can't afford or don't have the room to raise the animals you produce, you shouldn't be breeding. Unfortunately, there's always going to be people like that out there. The only thing you can do is stick to your prices and hold out for what you want. The demand is out there; you just have to be willing to wait for it.

[grim reaper in NY]

I have been pricing not only Balls, but also Rainbow Boas and a couple others over the past few months. Now, as was stated earlier, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for any given item, whether it be a car, house, pet...whatever.
As much as I'd love to own one of the "rare" Ball morphs, there is simply no way I'm going to shell out thousands or even hundreds of dollars for a snake that has a unique color combo or design. Now, I'm not saying the snakes like this aren't worth it, I'm just saying I'd rather be able to invest in more snakes at a lower price rather than one at an outrageous price just to say I own a "rare breed".
I also don't understand the conception that the minute a clutch is hatched the babies need to be sold post haste. I would rather buy a snake that is a year old, whose health has been verified and is on a sort of regular schedule for feeding and so forth rather then buy a baby that is already stressed and trying to figure out which end is up.
If a breeder is strapped for room, then that person should be honest enough with himself to admit he's overwhelmed and at the least his pets should skip the next breeding cycle. But, I can see how it would be hard to do that, especially if you're trying to cross morphs and so forth. Plus, I think hatching a clutch you oversaw id probably one of the most rewarding parts of owning these snakes, but that's just me.
I just wish some of the "rarer" morphs and so forth were more affordable for the "small guys", but I'm happy with what I've got.

[neilgolli]

Below is a post that I made on this topic almost 2 years ago on Ralphs board.
Here is a link to the orginal thread

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/fo...74&whichpage=1

My post is made on page 5.



Posted - 06/27/2007 : 12:13:31 PM
This industry is different than most, joe blow cannot walk into best buy, purchase a few items and then next year be shooting tvs out their rear end. People are not prepared for the work or care thus need to move their product and are afraid they will never be able to sell their product next to the big boys so they must drop their prices, it takes a little intestinal fortitude to run any business and most people just don't have what it takes to actually be successful.

The other enormous problem is that people want to look at this as a business, want to make their money back but don't want to spend money to sell their product. No offense to KS but people who want to sell 10, 20, 50 ,100K worth of animals and only want to spend a $100 a year for their marketing budget on KS are the ones who complain the most about stagnant product who drop their prices because its not moving. Within weeks they'll drop their price $500 but would never think of dropping $500 on a banner, some business cards and a table at a show where they can display all of their product rather than just discounting a single animal to make it go away.

On the other hand the guys that do spend the money to go out and find new customers, often go about it terribly wrong. They have one bad show or don't sell anything at a tiny show and give up, feeling its pointless when in reality people want to buy from people they are comfortable with. They want to see your name on KS and other sites, they want to see you at a few shows know your going to be around and if your sitting behind your table with a stick up your butt, your arms crossed and frustrated who in their right mind would want to buy from you.

This business is literally what you make it. You want to wholesale your product you can, you want to make an extra $10,000 a year or literally a million a year, its entirely possible, but its a business, a new business and its a hell of a lot of work. There is absolutely no better way to make a living in my opinion than what we do however you have to fight for it and work damn hard.

I completely sell out every year without any trouble and do very little trading, I'm not afraid to hold onto my animals and dont care what others sell their stuff for, I get what they are worth to me. I sell some early and I sell a lot at the end of the season at 300 - 500 grams, by then many are out of stock, the whores have run out and come November I normally get the prices that in September people thought I was crazy for asking.

[Dave763]

I have seen the exact opposite. Kingsnake prices are generally higher than what the the show prices are.
I bought a female het g-stripe from ECRB at the Hamburgh show for much less than KS prices. I also picked up a male piebald at that show for much less than you could find on KS.
Seems to me it works both ways.
From what I have seen on KS it seems like over priced animals are the norm.

[mechnut450]

I can under stand he high prices (wants to help cover the cost of the animals and maintaince), but Iam one who does ( right now unplanned breeding ) but i plan to breed for the joy of it and the fact I will hopefully prodcue a pied. I not after the themoney I doing it for the joy of being able to prove out the morph I got hets for. Plus being disable means i don't have a extra money to be buy a mutli grand snake. I can under stand he big guyswanting to keep the price high but I cna understand the low end price too. I don't really have anything I can give up ( do with out ) to buy a snake, I do without all the time I am use to it. but I still spend time drooling and wishing I could get some morph ( truthfully I don't like the bees and pinstripe morphs.) but I still can't see people paying too high a price or too low of a price. ( the at why low end snakes are on craigslist) they are consider throw away pets. I see so many snakes that are offered up due ot this or that reason and most of it is they no longer willnig ot spend the 30 + a monthto take care of the animal. In some cases it really the school,health issues but in a lot of cases they just tired of the animal.

I think a price range needs ot be set aswell as a possible %for change each year.. ( example a snake cost 3000 first year by yea 4 that price can be x% lower given the number being offered so that snake may not be about 2000 ) their should be a limit ot the price on some snakes thes 12,000 + s prices are really crazy I think since only some rich person can afford to spend 10 grand or more on a snake. I think the care of the snake should be more imporant than the price you can get for it .
so joe can buy the 2000 snake does that mean it have a happy,safe life ( guy get bord and toss it in the back yard ) or just cause they are poorer and can't afford it does not mean they won't treasure the snake. these are things I look at when I adopt out any of my rescues and such.

[m00kfu]

mechnut450 - Why not save up the money for the pied? You spend $500 on a pair of hets, then raise them up for 3 years before you can really even have a chance at producing a pied. If you were to start saving with the goal of raising $2000 in 3 years, chances are you would have what you needed to buy a pied in LESS than 3 years due to the price drops every year.