ASF Tell ALLS... Finally decided to reveal to my BP.net brothers and sisters....

[Mike Cavanaugh]

I have decided that it is not fair of me to not share my trade secrets any more... This site has given too much for me not to give back the best I can. What I am about to share will cut your production costs to pennies (about 7 cents for an adult ASF.) While some of it may sound questionable, it has been tried tested, and documented. Trust me.

Feed: I started out feeding Mazuri 6F. It is without a doubt a good food for ASF's but grossly overpriced. The feed I use, and will continue to use for the rest of my days is 100% Country Acres Hog Feed 16% protein. It costs $10 per 50lb bag. I have been using it exclusively for more then 6 months. I have already had full generations on it. That means from pregnant mom, to baby, to baby growing up, to baby becoming pregnant, to growing her babies. It has had no ill effects on production numbers at all. In fact, in several instances production was slightly increased. I have many pages of spreadsheets proving this (no, I'm not going to share that :colbert ):

When switching to this feed, the only thing you will really notice is larger, less frequent poops. This worried me at first, but the numbers prove it is NOT an issue.

Feed Dispenser for breeders: LOL, as one of the founding pioneers of food hoppers, many of you will be shocked to know what my new dispenser looks like. I experimented with many different ideas because the Hog feed comes in little tiny kibble. Well, my new dispenser is absolutely no dispenser at all! Finally I realized (after spending hundreds of dollars over time) that they are rats. They are dirty, scavenging creatures. Now I simply dump the measured amount of hog feed in a pile on top of the substrate. Will they pee and poop on it? YEP. For the first few days they will. After the first few days though to my surprise they learned to ALWAYS pee in a particular corner, and never in the food area. Yes the feed does get mixed into the substrate and poop, and even under it, but that simply doesn't matter. They know where it is and will get it as they eat. Sound unhealthy or cruel? Stop thinking like a human and start thinking like a rat.

Feed Dispenser for grow ups: a 2 foot piece of 2" pvc pipe with a 45 degree angle on end with hardware cloth got glued to the feeding end. suspend it from the middle of the top screen so the top sticks out allowing you to add food without having to open the tub.

Feed Amounts for the breeders: Wow, I was wasting SO much food in the beginning. I had no idea how little food they actually ate compared to what they just chew up and spit out. I keep my breeders in 1.2 groups. an actively breeding group gets no more then 125 grams of hog feed every 3 days. You will be AMAZED at how little 125 grams actually is.

Feed Amounts for the grow ups: I always keep the PVC pipe full. The grow ups don't waste food like the adults. The majority the ends up on the ground is eaten by the younger grow ups.

Substrate: Sun Coast Horse Bedding. Large Pine Flakes. It is dried and the flakes are big and fairly heavy. I will use this substrate forever because it is CHEAP and works in my opinion better then anything else. Like most compressed bags it claims to be like 9 square feet compressed. Unlike all the others though, It really is a HUGE amount once uncompressed. I would say it is about twice as much pine as any other kind I have previously purchased. The price? 7 bucks a bag. A benefit of this substrate: It has some large enough chunks for the rats to chew, so I don't have to put any chew blocks or toys at all.

Cleaning: I can clean all of my grow up tubs and 20 - 10 gallon breeder tanks in 45 minutes. I no longer wash them out at all. I simply scoot the rats to the non potty side of the tank or tub and shop vac the nasty stuff out. I do this once a week. Usually I only have to suck out about 1/3 of the substrate. then i scoot the remaining old over to the potty side and put new on the clean side. This way of cleaning requires MUCH less effort, and does not waste substrate.

Think about it...

The food: This will cut the price of your purchase food by about 60% compared to Mazuri 6F. If you measure the feed you will cut the amount of food you are giving by AT LEAST 50% (I know this is hard to believe, but if tried, you will see) Add those two together, and for every $10 dollars you spend in food now per month, you will spend $2 - $3 dollars after the change.

The substrate..

This substrate has twice as much substrate compared to other comparably priced brands. That cuts your purchase price in half. You will use AT LEAST 50% less substrate by eliminating wast. Add those two together and for every $10 dollars you spend in substrate now, you will spend $2 - $3 dollars after the change.

Put the food and substrate together and where you were paying $20 dollars, you are now paying $5 dollars. The side effects? There aren't any. Oh yeah, and you never have to spend another penny on food hoppers for your breeders.

Everyone has their own way of doing things. I just wanted to share my way. In these tough times it is the least I can do to help my fellow herpers out.

Sincerely,

[wolfy-hound]

That's awesome! I never used feed hoppers either, they weren't built into the racks I got, and I never installed any. Usually the food went on top of the rack wire, and if I used smaller food, it fell through and was in the substrate, and the rats did just fine.
I realized I was overfeeding the adults too! They wasted tons of food, hiding it everywhere and never eating it, since I'd put MORE food in when the stuff disappeared.

Thanks for posting.

[Beardedragon]

Interesting way you clean, that seems like a good idea because im my tubs the front is always the dirty part. If I still bred asfs id probably do that.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Forgot one thing.... the wheels are all history.

Why I wanted to get rid of them:

1.) They were a constant pain to deal with.
2.) The were expensive.
3.) Even the good metal chrome covered ones would wear out in less then a year.
4.) The wheels themselves were disgusting. They were caked with pee goop even though I attempted to spray them clean weekly. I noticed that a lot of the smell was coming from the wheel itself, and the glass behind the wheel that was also covered in pee goop.
5.) They got in the way when cleaning
6.) With literally 30 wheels spinning 24 / 7 at any given time at least 3 or 4 were squeaking. I am talking about LOUD squeaking that could be heard in the living room. It was driving everyone (especially my wife, kids, and dog) crazy. I constantly lubricated them but that was constant maintenance as they would always start again soon. Don't know what was worse, the constantly squeaking wheels or my wife pestering me about squeaky wheels.
7.) I wanted to see if they were even necessary.

When I first pulled them out, all hell broke loose. The breeding groups started fighting, babies and weiners were killed, and the males would CONSTANTLY bang their water bottles against the glass in protest. One male actually slammed the glass bottle and metal holder hard enough to put a crack in the tank glass!

The solution was that I fed 100% of them off, and set up all new breeding groups from kids that had never even seen a wheel. Now everyone is happy. I was surprised to see that removal of the wheels had no negative effects on breeding numbers, weight gain or general health. The only real change I noticed is that now the moms spend a lot more time with the babies... but still the baby growth rate is on average the same.

Wheels are obviously the choice of the keeper.... but I have proven to myself that they are NOT needed... and when you produce large numbers, life is much easier and cheaper without them.

So, if you look in my breeder tanks you will only see four things.

1.) Rats (and rat poop )
2.) Pine shavings
3.) Hog kibble on the substrate
4.) water bottle

[M&J in NC]

That makes sense. I just have a 1.3 colony, but I always like to save money. And you've just confirmed what I've been thinking about the wheel; It needs to go. I've had my ASFs for three weeks and they are absolutely obsessed with the wheel. Every time I go in to check on them (and I do mean every time) they are all four playing on the wheel together. I told my wife "I don't think we'll ever get babies because they can't stay off that wheel long enough."

Thanks for all the info.

[Shadera]

Thank you for your insight, Mike. I never would have imagined a feeder could be grown so cheaply if you hadn't lined it out. And we all know you have the experience to back it up!

Is the Country Acres a Purina product? I'm trying to find someplace near me where I can get hold of it.

The wheels drive us nuts sometimes here too. Shawn and I just look at each other and say, 'the meat is jogging again!'. LOL

[BrucenBruce]

Mike, thanks very much for this info!

This post would make a fine sticky . . . . (Hint, hint)

Meantime, I am emailing it to myself, so as to have it available in my "Long Term Storage" folder!

~Bruce

[littleindiangirl]

Forgot one thing.... the wheels are all history.

Why I wanted to get rid of them:

1.) They were a constant pain to deal with.
2.) The were expensive.
3.) Even the good metal chrome covered ones would wear out in less then a year.
4.) The wheels themselves were disgusting. They were caked with pee goop even though I attempted to spray them clean weekly. I noticed that a lot of the smell was coming from the wheel itself, and the glass behind the wheel that was also covered in pee goop.
5.) They got in the way when cleaning
6.) With literally 30 wheels spinning 24 / 7 at any given time at least 3 or 4 were squeaking. I am talking about LOUD squeaking that could be heard in the living room. It was driving everyone (especially my wife, kids, and dog) crazy. I constantly lubricated them but that was constant maintenance as they would always start again soon. Don't know what was worse, the constantly squeaking wheels or my wife pestering me about squeaky wheels.
7.) I wanted to see if they were even necessary.

When I first pulled them out, all hell broke loose. The breeding groups started fighting, babies and weiners were killed, and the males would CONSTANTLY bang their water bottles against the glass in protest. One male actually slammed the glass bottle and metal holder hard enough to put a crack in the tank glass!

The solution was that I fed 100% of them off, and set up all new breeding groups from kids that had never even seen a wheel. Now everyone is happy. I was surprised to see that removal of the wheels had no negative effects on breeding numbers, weight gain or general health. The only real change I noticed is that now the moms spend a lot more time with the babies... but still the baby growth rate is on average the same.

Wheels are obviously the choice of the keeper.... but I have proven to myself that they are NOT needed... and when you produce large numbers, life is much easier and cheaper without them.

So, if you look in my breeder tanks you will only see four things.

1.) Rats (and rat poop )
2.) Pine shavings
3.) Hog kibble on the substrate
4.) water bottle

I agree with Mike 110% on wheels. If you do not want to maintain wheels and squeaking, and the possibly injury or death.. DO NOT INTRODUCE RATS TO WHEELS.

They go berserk at first without them, and it takes a few weeks of high stress before they calm back down, if they ever do.


Good write up Mike, it's always nice to see how someone else does things. (Although, I still dont know how you deal with all of those glass tanks! *back ache city* )

[Mike Cavanaugh]

Yes I believe the country acres is in fact a Purina product.

[Mike Cavanaugh]

(Although, I still dont know how you deal with all of those glass tanks! *back ache city* )

They are 10 gallon tanks. they only weigh like 5 lbs if that!