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  1. #1
    Registered User Richard's Avatar
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    I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    After reading the details of this bill, In my opion this is a most of a good thing. This bill wont ban reptiles has a whole, but limt the Importation of nonnative wildlife. Sec 6>a>6 states that any nonative wildlife that is already owned before H.R. 669 may pass is ok to have. There is a part of the bill that makes me uncomfortable and angry and thats Sec 6>a>4 which will ban the breeding of nonnative wildlife.

    I also believe this bill will help rid the pet trade of those out there taking advantage of nonnative wildlife and the collectors who are just trying to make a $$$$.

    I love my reptiles and my trade as much as anyone eles here, but i would be more then happy to give it all up to help see them thrive in the wild. I think H.R. 669 will help do so.

    With all this being said, I would like to discuss and hear your opions. Iam not tring to start any DRAMA here so please keep the slaming to a limt

  2. #2
    Steel Magnolia rabernet's Avatar
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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    HR669 will end pet ownership as we know it today. No more breeding or sale of rodents, no more birds, not more fish that are non-native, no more gerbils, hamster, guinea pigs, etc. The ultimate goal by those who are lobbying for this bill is the COMPLETE ban of all pet ownership - including dogs and cats. Not on this bill, but it's the step in the direction that they are going for.

    With no sale of rodents, all our captive snakes will not be eating and slowly die of starvation.

    There will be more information posted AGAINST the passing of HR669 in the next few days. BP.net does NOT support HR669.

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  4. #3
    Registered User Richard's Avatar
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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    I cant dont see how this bill will effect our rondents that wee feed to our snakes(I can see ASF going out the window), most rats we feeding to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America. And as for ASF, there is a good reason why there outlawed in some states as it is, there an aggressive feed and breeding species So I cant even imagine are snakes or even reptiles starving to death, even taking into consideration that all reptile food is for the most part common Mammalia which is found in America itself.
    Last edited by Richard; 04-05-2009 at 02:25 PM.

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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    most rats we feeding to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America.
    The Brown Rat (Rattus norvegicus) is native to North China. Eventually ended up in Europe, and then sailed the seas to America.
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  7. #5
    Steel Magnolia rabernet's Avatar
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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    The Problem:
    HR669 The Non-Native Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act is a federal Bill introduced to the US House of Representatives by Del Madeleine Bordallo. It was written by the Defenders of Wildlife (DOW) a radical environmentalist group. It is based on a report called 'Broken Screens' written by DOW and commissioned by the US Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS). It
    recommends a very prejudicial Risk Assessment procedure that takes a guilty until proven innocent approach to adding most non-native animals to the Injurious Wildlife List of the Lacy Act. In addition it recommends appropriating unprecedented amounts of taxpayer dollars to expand the size,
    scope and law enforcement role of USFWS. If passed HR669 would end the import, export, purchase, sale, trade and breeding of most non-native animals. It would destroy a 3 Billion dollar a year Reptile Industry overnight. This is not an industry that is made up of corporate titans... just the opposite. The Reptile Industry is made up of Small American Family Businesses and Hobbyists. The underlying intent of HR669 is cast in the radical ideology of the Environmental and Animal Rights movement. It seeks to end the ownership and trade of all non-native animals and destroy American Families using the power of the federal government and our tax dollars to do it. This is NOT science... It IS Powerful Special interests manipulating our political system to their own ends. This is UNACCEPTABLE to USARK and the Reptile Industry.

    The Facts: The trade in Reptiles is a 2 billion dollar a year business (closer to 3 billion if you include all the ancillary businesses that support the animals). More than 11 million reptiles are being kept as pets in the US. More than 1 in every 25 households has 1 or more reptiles.There are close to 2 million Pythons and another 2 million Boas in captivity in the US right now. Many worth thousands of dollars each.There are more than 7 million geckos, turtles, lizards and other reptiles in captivity in the US right now.The US is the world leader comprising 82% of the reptile trade worldwide. HR669 is currently being considered by the Subcommittee on Insular Affairs,
    Oceans & Wildlife. There is a hearing scheduled for April 23rd. What USARK Is Doing:Hired high powered Washington DC Lobbyist.Meeting with key political figures.Meeting with USFWS.Educating legislators and staff.Raising Funds.Employing a comprehensive strategy to protect the right to own and trade in Reptiles & Amphibians.
    What You Must Do Today: If you don't do this our rights are likely to be taken from you. Join The Reptile Nation - There is Strength in Numbers... Protect Your Rights!Contact the Subcommittee Today! See sample letter and contact info below. Be polite & professional!Check the State
    represented by Committee Members. If it is your State call them and let them know you are their constituent and you OPPOSE HR669. Rep Henry Brown and Rep Robert Wittman are friendly to us so make sure you contact them!

    When you finish send an email to HR669@yahoo.com with
    NO on HR669 in the subject line so we can track responses. Forward this Alert to everyone on your email list, forums and social networks.

    Send Questions to President@USARK.org
    Sample Letter: cut & paste to fax or email
    Subject: No on HR669
    Dear Committee

    Member,

    Please oppose HR669.

    It is a fundamentally flawed Bill written by a radical
    environmentalist group that seeks to end the ownership and trade of all non-native animals. There is not a shred of scientific evidence to justify the destruction of a Reptile Industry that leads the world in producing and exporting high quality captive bred reptiles. With the stroke of a pen thousands of small American family businesses would be bankrupted overnight. With no quantifiable benefits, what could be the justification to destroy a viable sector of the American economy in a time of hardship? What will the additional drain on taxpayer dollars be to grow USFWS at unprecedented levels in order to destroy American small business? These are not the "To big to fail" corporate titans, but small family businesses with their entire net worth wrapped up in their Reptile breeding projects and ancillary supporting businesses. A 3 billion dollar a year industry would be wiped out by HR669. Thousands of American families would suffer losing everything.Trade in Reptiles and ancillary businesses is estimated to be a 3 billion dollar a year industry.More than 9 million Reptiles are exported from the US annually.More than 11 million Reptiles are kept as pets in the US. That means 1 in 25 households have 1 or more Reptiles.The US accounts for 82% of the worldwide trade in Reptiles.At least 500,000 Americans would be negatively impacted by HR669. Thousands of small family businesses would be destroyed.There are approximately 4 million boas & pythons, as well as more than 7 million geckos, lizards turtles & other Reptiles in captivity in the US today.The United States Association of Reptile Keepers Opposes HR669.

    Please oppose HR669! The costs to American Families would be enormous. The benefits are both questionable and non quantifiable. NO ON HR669.
    Sincerely,

    ***Contact all members- Make sure you contact the Chairman Madeleine Bordallo, Ranking Republican Henry Brown and Robert Wittman. Henry Brown and Robert Wittman are friendly to us and NEED to hear from us. Send an Email to HR669@yahoo.com w/ NO on HR669 in the subject line so we can track how many have responded.

    House Committee on Natural Resources
    Subcommittee on Insular
    Affairs, Oceans & Wildlife
    187 Ford House Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515
    202/226-0200 (Tel.)
    202/225-1542 (Fax)

    Madeleine Z. Bordallo
    (Ch)(NP-Guam)
    427 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515-5301
    202/225-1188 (Washington Tel. #)
    202/226-0341 (Washington Fax #)
    120 Father Duenas Ave., Suite
    107
    Hagatna, GUAM 96910
    671/477-4272 (District Tel. #)
    671/477-2587 (District Fax #)
    http://www.house.gov/bordallo/IMA/issue.htm


    Henry Brown (R-SC) Ranking Republican103 Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515
    202/225-3176 (Washington Tel. #)
    202/225-3407 (Washington Fax #)
    1800 North Oak Street, Suite C
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    29577
    843/445-6459 (District Tel. #)
    843/445-6418 (District Fax #)
    5900 Core Avenue, Suite 401
    North Charleston, SC 29406
    843/747-4175 (District Tel. #) 843/747-4711 (District Fax #)
    http://brown.house.gov/Contact/index.html

    Lois Capps (D-CA)
    1110 Longworth House
    Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515
    202/225-3601 (Washington Tel. #)
    202/225-5632 (Washington Fax #)
    2675 N. Ventura Road, Suite 105
    Port Hueneme, CA 93041 805/985-6807 (District Tel. #)
    805/985-6875 (District Fax #)
    301 E Carrillo Street, Suite A
    Santa Barbara, CA 93101
    805/730-1710 (District Tel. #)
    805/730-9153
    (District Fax #)
    http://www.house.gov/capps/contact/send_an_email.shtml

    William Cassidy (R-LA)
    506
    Cannon House Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515
    202/225-3901 (District Tel. #)
    202/225-7313 (District Fax #)
    5555 Hilton Avenue, Suite 100
    Baton Rouge, LA 70808 225/929-7711 (District Tel. #)
    225/929-7688 (District Fax #)
    http://cassidy.house.gov/contact/index.shtml
    Jason Chaffetz (R-UT)
    1032 Longworth House Office Building
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    202/225-5629 (Washington Fax #)
    51 South University
    Ave., Suite 319
    Provo, UT 84601
    801/851-2500 (District Tel. #)
    801/851-2509 (District Fax #)
    https://forms.house.gov/chaffetz/contactform.shtml

    Donna M. Christensen (NP-Virgin Islands)
    1510 Longworth House
    Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515
    202/225-1790 (Washington Tel. #)
    202/225-5517 (Washington Fax #)
    Nisky Business Center
    Second Floor, Suite 207
    St. Croix,
    VIRGIN ISLANDS 00802
    340/778-4408 (District Tel. #)
    340/778-8033 (District Fax #)
    P.O. Box 5980
    Sunny Isle Shopping Center, Space 25
    St. Croix, VIRGIN ISLANDS 00823 340/778-5900 (District Tel. #)
    340/778-5111 (District Fax #)
    http://www.house.gov/writerep/

    Diana L. DeGette (D-CO) 2335 Rayburn House Office Building
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    600 Grant Street, Suite 202
    Denver, CO 80203

    303/844-4988 (District Tel. #)
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    http://www.house.gov/formdegette/zip_auth.htm
    Eni F.H. Faleomavaega (NP – American Samoa)
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    P.O. Box, Drawer X
    Pago Pago, AMERICAN SAMOA 96799
    684/633-1372 (District Tel. #)
    684/633-2680 (District Fax #)
    faleomavaega@mail.house.gov

    Jeff Flake (R-AZ)
    240 Cannon House Office Building
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    202/225-2635
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    202/226-4386 (Washington Fax #)
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    jeff.flake@mail.house.gov

    John Fleming (R-LA)
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    202/225-8039 (Washington Fax #)
    6425 Youree Drive, Suite 350
    Shreveport, LA 71105
    318/798-2254 (District Tel. #)
    318/798-2063 (District Fax #) Southgate Plaza Shopping Center
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    337/238-0566 (District Fax #)
    https://forms.house.gov/fleming/contactform.shtml

    Doc Hastings (R-WA)
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    202/225-3251 (Washington Fax #)
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    Pasco, WA 99301
    509/543-9396 (District Tel.
    #)
    509/545-1972 (District Fax #)
    302 East Chestnut Street
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    http://hastings.house.gov/ContactForm.aspx

    Dale E. Kildee (D-MI)
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    dkildee@mail.house.gov

    Ronald James Kind (D-WI)
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    205 Fifth Ave. South, Suite 400
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    ron.kind@mail.house.gov

    Frank M. Kratovil, Jr. (D-MD)
    314 Cannon House Office Building
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    102 Turpins Lane
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    Douglas L. Lamborn (R-CO)
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  8. #6
    BPnet Veteran panthercz's Avatar
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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I cant dont see how this bill will effect our rondents that wee feed to our snakes(I can see ASF going out the window), most rats we feed to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America.
    Rats are NOT native to North America, nor most of the world in which they inhabit.

    The fact you think HR669 is "most of a good thing" is frightening. It could cost our already fragile economy billions and cost thousands upon thousands of people their jobs.
    "If I were stranded on a desert island and could only have one book, record and person...I'd probably die of exposure."

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  9. #7
    Old enough to remember. Freakie_frog's Avatar
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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I cant dont see how this bill will effect our rondents that wee feed to our snakes(I can see ASF going out the window), most rats we feed to snakes is the common Brown Rat which is a native species to all of North America. And as for ASF, there is a good reason why there outlawed in some states as it is, there an aggressive feed and breeding species So I cant even imagine are snakes or even reptiles starving to death, even taking into consideration that all reptile food is for the most part common Mammalia which is found in America itself.
    First of all it doesn't say "in the Pet trade" it says at all. This means even those non-native animals that are bred or imported of food, and since the bill doesn't specify alive or processed it means you can even buy crab, shrimp, tuna.

    Because if its illegal to own non native snakes then there is no reason to breed rats for a feeder business. So business' close people loose income, houses get foreclosed.

    On top of that think of the people that supply the bedding for the feeder company they now take a huge hit every month. This means that they can't afford to pay a couple of employees. So avian family suffer

    Think of Purina all of the different types of food they make if now they can't make anything but for native animals in the pet trade.

    Think of places like Petsmart and Petco that will have to totally do away with buying supply's for exotics.

    Vets that specialize in reptiles or exotics like Scott Stahl no longer have a job.

    People need to wake up and understand that if 1/3 of the animals on that list are banned this country will never recover. Pet ownership and the ability or possess and breed or transport nonnative animals is a huge portion of the American economy.

    It just so happens that Pets are the part of our economy that have suffered the least in this recession.
    When you've got 10,000 people trying to do the same thing, why would you want to be number 10,001? ~ Mark Cuban
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  11. #8
    BPnet Veteran Custom Exotics's Avatar
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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    Quote Originally Posted by Freakie_frog View Post
    First of all it doesn't say "in the Pet trade" it says at all. This means even those non-native animals that are bred or imported of food, and since the bill doesn't specify alive or processed it means you can even buy crab, shrimp, tuna.

    Because if its illegal to own non native snakes then there is no reason to breed rats for a feeder business. So business' close people loose income, houses get foreclosed.

    On top of that think of the people that supply the bedding for the feeder company they now take a huge hit every month. This means that they can't afford to pay a couple of employees. So avian family suffer

    Think of Purina all of the different types of food they make if now they can't make anything but for native animals in the pet trade.

    Think of places like Petsmart and Petco that will have to totally do away with buying supply's for exotics.

    Vets that specialize in reptiles or exotics like Scott Stahl no longer have a job.

    People need to wake up and understand that if 1/3 of the animals on that list are banned this country will never recover. Pet ownership and the ability or possess and breed or transport nonnative animals is a huge portion of the American economy.

    It just so happens that Pets are the part of our economy that have suffered the least in this recession.
    Exactly Ed, well said, passing of this bill would have a ripple effect beyond belief, as you have described. You would think that with all of the problems in the country right now, there would be more pressing issues at hand. These representatives just have no idea how big of an industry this is, and its up to us to show them, and show them how much more this economy will suffer with a passing of H.R. 669.
    Custom reptile and amphibian enclosures! As well as other custom wood working.

  12. #9
    Telling it like it is! Stewart_Reptiles's Avatar
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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    I love my reptiles and my trade as much as anyone eles here, but i would be more then happy to give it all up to help see them thrive in the wild. I think H.R. 669 will help do so.
    So you think that they are not thriving in the wild?

    Even if it was the case this bill would affect the trade of animals in this country and this country alone and while I could see implementing some limitations on imports (I do not believe in ban in any form or shape) additionally there will always be the European pet trade and the food trade in Asia it will not affect those.

    The main animals that are really targeted (though for the gov is is always easier to ban everything rather than research and think ) are thriving in the wild already.

    Some special interests group are pushing this law and they could not care less about protecting those animals they just want to see them gone and this would only be a start.

    This will mean no more snake shows, no more out of state trade, no more breeding. This will mean THE END of this industry and hobby all together simple as that whether you believe it or not.

    One they stop this industry what make you think they will stop there and not make you surrender your animals to have them put down.

    I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS BILL or any part of it as it stands

    And I also think you need to re-read that bill and understand it fully because you do not get the BIG PICTURE all you see for now is YOU and your ability to keep your 1 or 2 pet snakes.
    Deborah Stewart


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  14. #10
    BPnet Veteran Patrick Long's Avatar
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    Re: I Approve of Most of H.R. 669

    This cant be for reals?

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