My wc gravid

[littleindiangirl]

Having ended up with a couple of these females after they've laid their clutches I really feel I have to say something on that subject (not bashing, just a comment really).

Az I hope you do have experience with getting a WC adult properly settled into captivity. WC adults, especially ones that come in gravid, can be highly stressed snakes. They can and will go on extremely long hunger strikes, can often have parasite loads both externally and internally and often are not in great physical shape due to shipping, overhandling and whatever rigors of living wild they survived prior to becoming gravid.

I hope you are ready for what may come for this female. She's not just a way to eggs. She needs and deserves a lot of work to allow her to live and thrive in captivity after she lays that clutch. Some do well, many do not and I've personally seen the results of the ones that don't do well and aren't made a priority in a collection.

I agree 1000% with FrankyKeno. WC's are a lot of work, they can and often do refuse to eat for MONTHS. Sometimes a year or more. Not even to mention the parasite load.

I have to wonder what the motivations were in buying a WC gravid female? Just you asking this question tells me that perhaps you don't understand the full aspects of breeding, but want to hatch eggs anyways without going through the full process with two adult animals.

Are you just looking for some hatchlings to raise and sell? I'm sure there are many breeders who would sell captive hatched or captive bred normal babies to you. Then you can work through getting babies to eat, and finding people to sell to.

[azpythons]

She may give you eggs yet, but if she does not lay, then you could RETURN THE SNAKE FOR A REFUND, according to the guarentee you quoted. The snake must have egg(s) in order to qualify as gravid, so if she does not at least lay one slug.. then you got a non-gravid, which means you could get your money back BY RETURNING THE SNAKE.

I'm not sure why you feel you would be entitled to keep the snake, get your money back, and get some of his hatchlings?

1) I paid for a gravid snake with at least the chance id have one good egg out of the clutch, i know the possibility of laying all infertile eggs, but theres no guaranteeing all eggs would be infertile, so i dont think its too unreasonable to asumme at least 2 would of made it. If she was gravid, i wouldnt have to return her after she layed eggs, so why should i have to give her back if shes not gravid?? I do understand all the risks associated with wild caughts but have done my research and am prepared, and if i have any problems i thought thats what yall were here for.
yes i did want to have a experience with the eggs my incubator all that, but i also wanted the wc experience, which anyone who says unless you have experience dont do it, but if thats a rule then noone would have any experience right?? I know feeding troubles all that..but when i get my girl fully adapted, long road it may be, itll be all the more worth it.
And as far as his guarantee, i asked him straight up are the 100% percent guarnateed to be gravid, and he said yes they are, ill go post a copy later maybe, but it was as straightforward as that.

All in all i just want her to lay eggs, so i can see what babies are all about, im just looking for as much experience and info as i can get (which is why im on here 24-7) So perfect scenario is she ends up laying eggs sometimes here soon...then to the fun stuff!!! but if she doesnt, i dont think at the very least keeping the snake and getting my money back is not asking too much, its not like a broken toy, id rather jus keep the snake and let him have my money if it was like that.

heres a copy and paste of the email

>
>yes they are all gravid, but there is no guarantee on how many
>eggs
>or if there are a few that are slugs.
>
>Thanks
>
>John
>
>On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:50:19 -0500
>< wrote:
>>Ok and they are all 100 percent guaranteed to be gravid? Im sure
>>they are im just kind of new at this
so I wanna be double sure.

[wilomn]

Guaranteed gravid at time of sale and guaranteed to lay are good eggs are not the same thing.

Who'd you buy from?

What is their TOS?

What do you have in writing?

[azpythons]

If she lays all slugs, i know theres nothing to do obviously, she was gravid, but if she doesnt have any eggs, even slugs, thats what i meant this whole time.

[isorokko]

Erm...
Why would you be entitled to keep the snake for no charge at all if it wasn't gravid? In a way, you paid for a snake that is carrying eggs, if your snake for some reaons is not carrying the eggs promised, then you ended up just paying for the snake, which should entitle you to a discount but not a full refund + free snake.

In essence you actually got a faulty product (although I don't think it is a good analogy to make since I don't really like comparing living creatures to manufactured things) which should mean that you can return said product and get your money back.

[azpythons]

Erm...
Why would you be entitled to keep the snake for no charge at all if it wasn't gravid? In a way, you paid for a snake that is carrying eggs, if your snake for some reaons is not carrying the eggs promised, then you ended up just paying for the snake, which should entitle you to a discount but not a full refund + free snake.

In essence you actually got a faulty product (although I don't think it is a good analogy to make since I don't really like comparing living creatures to manufactured things) which should mean that you can return said product and get your money back.

I understand the faulty product thing, but like you said there living creatures, i emailed the guy to see what hell do if ends up not being gravid, and if he says return the snake for your money back, oh well the snakes here and my moneys gone.

[azpythons]

Why I feel it would be good business (not i feel im entitled) to get my money back and keep the snake- I guess its because i believe in good business, and a good business man will add value if they mess up. So in this case, id think if he returned the money i paid, not including shipping, he jus made me happy, now if he says cool well ship the snake back to me 1) thats added stress 2) I aint a reptile certified shipper so id have to go out of my way to do that, and a angry customer is a bad customer. 3) Its not like shes sick, if i bought a sick snake then id understand the get your money back after you give the snake back, but if it was false advertisement, as far as a living creature is concerned if i was the one doing business id have no problem sending someone their money back and letting them keep the snake if it was something i assured. BUt i guess thats just me.

[josh@outbackreps]

If you bought her from the "john guy" I am thinking of there is a chance she is not gravid, as he is just selling them for another company that has a terrible reputation.

That said, I still have a few gravids that have yet to lay there eggs, we got 8 eggs yesterday from a w.c gravid we had left from this season. While most have laid their eggs by now, there are always a few that got bred later and hold out, like the females we have left, and the fact that animals from Ghana lay eggs about 30-45 days later than animals from Benin. Almost all the gravids that are shipped out are shipped from Ghana even though they were collected in Benin and Togo as the Freight from Ghana is a lot cheaper than Benin, so there is a good chance she was just a animal that was shipped from Ghana that had follicles and has yet to lay.

All gravids are imported with large follicles, they are not actually gravid. That is the reason they can be imported, and shipped to a dealer then to you, and still produce good eggs as they ovulate in captivity. What you could have seen is her p.o.s that ran late as we have had some gravids do the same shed cycle, or she could have not ovulated and is not gravid.
Out of 127 gravids we got in this year we had 4 that did not ovulate so we help them back.

If she does not lay eggs within the next 30 days then you should contact "john" if he is still around, if not p.m us and I will tell you who he was selling them for, as he was just selling and did not have them in his care.

My policy for gravids is :
We guarantee 100% that they are gravid, if for some reason they do not lay eggs the animal has to be returned to us for a credit toward any other animal we have available, the other options are if a buyer has a animal that they do not want to send back then we offer them a partial credit usually 50% of the cost of the female, or offer a gravid the following season at cost and we cover the shipping.

Even the most generous sellers will only offer to refund the cost of the female and your shipping if you return the animal to them. If the animal is not returned then its hard to tell is she laid eggs or not, so that is a reason for the seller to expect to get the animal back too.

This is just our policy and experience with having and selling gravids, at the end of the day it all depends on the person you bought her from and what they think.

Hope this helps.

[azpythons]

Even the most generous sellers will only offer to refund the cost of the female and your shipping if you return the animal to them. If the animal is not returned then its hard to tell is she laid eggs or not, so that is a reason for the seller to expect to get the animal back too.

didnt but from john, but im sure i bought from the guy who he is selling for, chris?? Yea and that was the wrong email didnt notice, i bought directly from chris, and i thought i sent him the same question, having trouble finding the email though, and i didnt realize how bad of a rep he had untill after, but she is a great snake. And that makes sense a good business will make sure they arent getting ripped off, she is very heavy and pretty hard in her mid section, hopefully time will prove shell be gravid.
Thank you

[josh@outbackreps]

I figured it was Chris or John (ball python brothers) as Chris got the first shipment of gravids in on Dec. 23, 08.

The fact that she was imported in Dec. and I know his animals were collected in Benin as Ghana does not have gravids until later in the year (Generally mid. January) it sounds like she probable is not gravid. You said her belly is hard, the easiest way to tell a gravid is there skin is pulled down on there body from the eggs filling them out so much and you see the spine stick up on there backs when they are getting ready to lay.

If you have a pic of her we might be able to give you a better idea if she is gravid. Imports are a lot different looking when gravid than a animal bred in captivity as captive animals are usually fat so so not have the xtreme look that a thinner imported female has when packed with eggs.